Andre Ward defensive shield

I don’t think so. I think Ward simply worked the system to his favor and bent the rules a lot. He had some talent but he’s not this master boxer or great fighter that’s been shoved in our faces.

 

High ring IQ, unique talent... great fighter!

 

This. He was a very good fighter for this time period, but he’s nowhere near being one of the greatest defensive fighters ever at 168-175.

He wasn’t as good or as proven as Calzaghe, Moore, Spinks, Conn, and too many other fighters to name from the past.

 

Yeah he wouldn’t be in a top 25/30 combined of those two weight classes I’d imagine. Throw in cruiserweights and Usyk has already eclipsed him as far as achievements and obviously on skill.

 

He didn't have the athleticism of Jones (who has), but he was a very smart, well schooled fighter that made few mistakes. There is a reason why he rarely got hit. So, yeah, he's probably up there. Like Hopkins, his style wasn't super pleasing to eye, but effective nonetheless.

 

168 is thin but Calzaghe, Jones, Toney would have beaten him. Hopkins if he’d have not skipped 168 I’d say too.

 

Not the finest array of classic defensive skills ever displayed in a boxing ring, at least from an aesthetic point of view, Ward nevertheless boasted incredible tactical nous when it came to shutting down an opponents offence. Rather than defence his real strengths were adaptability and a win-at-all-costs attitude, re-enforced by unshakeable self belief.

I'd back him against both Calzaghe and Hopkins. Roy would have too much for him though and I also reckon Toney would do a number on him. I'd favour Ward over anyone at 175 now although Gvozdyk would be another Kovalev tier challenge and close to 50/50. Up against Usyk however I give him a 'robbers chance' only.

 

I have a hard time thinking of 30 (or even 25) guys below 175, who should be favored to beat Ward. I would be interested to see, who you have in mind.

 

The subtlety of what made him great would be almost all but completely lost if filmed with older cameras.

But he is one of the best modern fighters imo. Ring IQ, fight IQ, he was a master of his craft and knew how to win fights.

 

He's great but not all time great in my humble opinion. I know that many see the sweet science as hitting and not getting hit. I like to think you need to hit more than Ward did. Regardless, it's a hell of a lot easier not getting hit in 30-odd fights, than throughout some of the true all time defensive greats, with more bouts on their records.

 

How is Calzaghe more proven?

 

3 of the best guys ever at 168...