Andre Ward is a greater fighter than Floyd Mayweather, allow me to explain

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jan 17, 2020.


  1. tinman

    tinman Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    First of all, congratulations Andre Ward, for being named Sports Illustrated Fighter of the Decade. There was no other choice, as he was deservedly the winner and clearly the only option. Second, of all I'm biased stylistically to Mayweather (shockingly) especially the PBF version of Mayweather. While I'm not a big fan of Mayweather's style, I'm especially not a fan of Ward's.

    With that said, what they did in the ring, it's clear to me that Ward is the greater fighter. Of course, I realize that among boxing fans and media this is a contrarian opinion, but yet to me, the correct opinion.

    Ward's best opponents were in their prime or relatively close to it and Mayweather's were not. DLH was 34, Mosley was 38, Marquez was 35 and Pacquiao was 36. Not only were the latter two past their prime and older fighters, but they were also heavily undersized. There is no getting around this, all 4 of his premier opponents were 5+ years removed from their best days. In the case of Mosley literally a decade.

    Contrast that to Ward's best opponents. Kessler was 30. Froch was 34. Kovalev was 33. Not only were these guys younger, but being naturally 168-175 pounders they hit their prime at a much later chronological age than Mayweather's best opposition did.

    We can go on and on about Ward's fight with Kovalev. I personally, as do most, think he lost the first fight. That does not damage his legacy even slightly in my opinion. Because he took on a bona fide elite fighter, relatively close to his prime, with no catchweight, and gave it his best shot. I can't point to any instance in Mayweather's career where he did anything close to that.

    It's time to give Ward his due.
     
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  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Im a big Ward fan, and I think he's underrated, but I cant agree here.

    That being said... glad Ward got fotd.
     
  3. sambatraube

    sambatraube New Member Full Member

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    Well deserve FOTD. But i’d still favor floyd if we’re talking about whose career is better.
     
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  4. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    You'd make a pretty good attorney!
     
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  5. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Between him, Floyd and Canelo, I also thought Ward should get FOTD. But unless you were born in 2010, there’s absolutely no way is he overall greater than FMJ. Yeah, Pac was 36, but one can easily argue that 36 year old Pac was a better p4p fighter than Kessler, Froch and even Kovalev. One can also easily argue that Floyd’s win and performance over undefeated Corrales is better than any single win/performance Ward has and that Floyd’s run at 130>Ward’s run at 168.

    So, even without taking Floyd’s wins over Hatton, Cotto, Castillo, Canelo, he most definetly is greater than Ward.
     
  6. tinman

    tinman Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sure you could argue it, but Ward fought the best (or very close to it) versions of his top opponents. And Mayweather did not.
     
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  7. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

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    -
    True.
    The argument usually goes down the rabbit hole on 'how' the fights went down. I suspect if there were no lowblows or questionable calls the antagonist always finds the glass 1/2 empty metaphorically speaking.
     
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  8. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And he had 3 top opponents, only 3 elite level fighters in an entire career. For Floyd, the same number would be 13 or 14, some of them not at their best, some were.

    As I said, Floyd’s run at 130>Ward’s run at 168. Let’s say It’s even for the sake of the argument. Then you’re left with Kovalev for Ward, and than Pac, Canelo, Cotto, De la Hoya, Mosley, JMM, Castillo, Hatton, Maidana, Judah for Floyd. Are you really saying that fighting Kovalev near his best trumps all those names with a straight face? Give it a rest.
     
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  9. tinman

    tinman Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see your point and I don't want to get into a long winded 130 vs 168 run debate or total number of champions beaten debate. What I'm saying is that Ward's best opponents were near or at their peak and Mayweather's were not.

    There is historical precedence for my thinking as well. Marciano is not greater than Ali.

    I go by behavior and what I see in the ring. I don't go by what if's for the most part.
     
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  10. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This decade dude...
     
  11. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What what if’s?

    Yeah, Ward fought 3 elite or near elite opponents close to their best, Floyd fought about 15 elite or near elite opponents, some at their best like Corrales and Hatton, some are not like Pac and ODLH( though there’s a very strong case for that version of Pac being a better win than Froch or Kessler). There’s absolutely no way Ward with 3 notable opponents is above Floyd in terms of p4p greatness. You’re just clutching at straws.
     
  12. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, see his post above. Tinman is trying to argue that Ward’s career is greater than Floyd’s overall.
     
  13. tinman

    tinman Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What you're doing is asking me to consider the totality of their careers instead of just focusing on the fact that Ward's top opponents were in their prime and Mayweather's were not.

    I understand the concept. I disagree with it. The truest sign of a great fighter and I mean a true, undeniable ATG is to step into the ring with a guy who is a cut above the rest and still in his prime. Ward did this in his career and Mayweather did not.
     
  14. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What you’re doing is nitpicking their careers and turning a blind eye to the parts that don’t fit your narrative. That most certainly is not how you define an ATG. In addition to fighting all the past prime greats you listed, Floyd also fought guys who were a cut above the rest and in their prime, just like Ward did with Froch, Kessler and Kovalev(and a lot of people argue that Kessler was NOT at his best when he fought Ward). You covering your ears and repeating the same things not gonna change that.
     
  15. BoxingDialogue

    BoxingDialogue Active Member Full Member

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    I swear it’s unbelievable sometimes how much age is over analyzed by boxing fans. It’s like there is zero point in fighting anyone past the age of 33 because you’re going to get zero credit for it even if that fighter is coming off great performances.
     
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