Andre Ward is a greater fighter than Floyd Mayweather, allow me to explain

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jan 17, 2020.


  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not a Floyd fan, but what is it with all this that he ducked DLH and Mosley?

    Even if we forget about them being in different weight classes (are Spence and Crawford ducking Canelo and GGG right now, are Canelo and GGG ducking Beterbiev?) is there any clear signs of them trying to get a fight with Floyd before it happened? And doesn't it count that they both came off of great performances right before facing Floyd?
     
  2. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There was no ducking. Was simply a matter of timing not being right.
     
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  3. acie2g

    acie2g Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mayweather at 30/35 alone is better and comparable to Wards whole career.
    G.Hernandez the best SFW of the 90's WBC Champ.
    Corrales P4P rated was stripped of IBF Title shortly before bout could have easily been a unification
    C.Hernandez top 5 SFW contender went on to win WBC SFW title when Mayweather moved up
    J. Chavez another top 5 contender won IBF Title after this bout.
    Castillo 2x. Lineal LW Champ arguably a top 15/20 all time Lightweight

    That's about the same amount of high quality fights Ward had in total, hell for all the flack he gets at 147 outside of Mitchell & Berto every fighter he fought for a decade was a reigning Champ, Ward is good great even for THIS era but he isn't up to scratch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No you cannot make a logical argument that Ward's resume overall is better than Floyd's. His biggest wins like Froch, Kovalev, etc would have to be leagues ahead of Floyd's best wins like canelo, Corrales, etc and they simply aren't. Contrary to popular belief, Floyd has quality AND quantity and he didn't only fight old men. Anyone repeating these debunked bullet points clearly doesn't keep up with boxing and gets their info from angry YouTube videos/articles or skimming through boxrec.
     
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  5. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile I Live! I Die! I Live Again! Full Member

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    A terrible opinion excellently argued. Well done. Those are actually pretty good points.
     
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  6. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile I Live! I Die! I Live Again! Full Member

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    FOTD from Sports Illustrated which isn't much for boxing. BWAA is a lot more authoritative and they picked Floyd, as did I. I put Ward at about sixth most accomplished after Floyd, Pac, Donaire, Gonzalez, and possibly Canelo. If we want to talk about most naturally gifted and in their prime during the decade I'd maybe go with Lomachenko or Rigondeaux before Ward too. He just doesn't measure up for me, not as a best of his era talent. He's more like a top wasted potential candidate, although Rigo and Lara give him some stiff competition there too. I'd rather celebrate a spectacularly exciting fighter like Orlando Salido who went 4-3 against present or future pound for pounders being ambitious and taking every opportunity life afforded him.
     
  7. Stefz

    Stefz Member Full Member

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    In my opinion, and Yes every will slate me that "i'm wrong". I would of gave it to Uzyk.

    Unifying a division and fighting most in there back yard. No controversy to his decisions, good ambassador for the sport, and now decides to move up to heavyweight to contend there.

    But hey, i must be crazy.
     
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  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes. So that's why it's so strange that it gets brought up time and time and time again.

    DLH moved up to 147 lbs shortly after Floyd had started his pro career at 130 and moved to 154 about the time that Floyd moved to 135 and 160 when Floyd moved to 140. So for the majority of the time their careers overlapped there were three weight classes separating them and Oscar had guys like Mosley and Hopkins to fight. And Floyd for his part was busy with bigger p4p guys like Corrales and Castillo. It seems absurdly revisionist to me to claim that Floyd-Oscar was the logical fight during these years.

    It was a very logical fight when Oscar had made his comeback after the Hopkins loss with an impressive showing against Mayorga, though, and it did happen then. So there's nothing to whine about.

    Mosley was also three divisions above Floyd and engaged in bigger money fights until after his losses to Wright. After that a fight could have happened, but the appeal of such a fight can't have been that great after his losses to Forrest and Wright and what should have been a loss in the rematch against Oscar. Yes, he beat Vargas twice but at that time the fight with Oscar was happening for Floyd. After that fight there was a window, but Floyd faced Hatton instead and that was a very logical fight to make even though the bigger Mosley would have been an exciting challenge as well. The smaller but prime and undefeated guy or the bigger, more proven veteran but also with more wear and tear and age? It's not a given call, by any means.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's very interesting.

    I agree with a lot of what you've written. But there's so much to analyse. Honestly, if you put them both under the microscope, it would make for a great debate.

    It's just so hard to rank fighters, especially if they fought at different weights and in different eras.

    You can use traditional criteria, or you can rank them on a H2H basis which is what I regularly do.

    In terms of overall skills, I rate Floyd ahead of Andre. But I think Andre took more risks and that his wins over Kovalev were pretty much better than any of Floyd's best wins. But then he retired after only 32 fights, whereas Floyd has got a stronger overall resume, due to fighting across many divisions, in a 50 fight career.
     
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  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good post. But Ward's win over Kovalev rates higher than Floyd's win over Manny.
     
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  11. MVC!

    MVC! The Best Ever Full Member

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    Both are much greater than manny pacroid
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    True. But his wins over Kovalev were very impressive.

    Floyd only fought 10 times across the decade, and that included his circus against McGregor.

    Manny was very deserving, as even though he lost a few, he fought a lot more, and he came back at an advanced age to beat younger fighters.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Floyd is one of the greatest fighters of all time. But he certainly doesn't have an argument to being regarded as the best fighter of all of the divisions that he fought in.
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ward didn't have the opportunity to climb through the divisions like Floyd did,

    Floyd's win over Canelo is not better than Ward's win over Kovalev, despite Floyd being at an advanced age.
     
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  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Come on man.

    He retired when the WW division was hotting up.

    And yes, we will mention Pac.

    He could have compromised on the cut off days, seeing as though:

    1. Manny had a legitimate reason for wanting them.

    2. There was zero proof of any wrongdoing.

    And even after Manny eventually agreed to everything, it still took years for it to be made.

    Floyd had no intention of fighting Manny, until he'd been iced by JMM.
     
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