Andre Ward is a greater fighter than Floyd Mayweather, allow me to explain

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Jan 17, 2020.


  1. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Obviously where you said that Floyd's early career alone trumps anything that Ward did.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Andre Ward did not fight the version of Kovalev that Canelo has just fought. And Floyd didn't fight the version of Canelo that Kovalev's just fought.

    Behave.

    You don't rank wins like that.

    That's ridiculous.

    The win over Manny wasn't better either.

    You're not looking at stats.

    You're looking at the degree of difficulty and the element of risk etc.

    You're analysing the specific period of when the fights occurred.

    Manny Pacquiao was faded and injured when he fought Floyd. Floyd also had a huge reach advantage, and then there's the IV scandal.

    Floyd's win over Oscar was more impressive.

    Andre Ward fought a huge punching, prime LHW, after several years of inactivity. And he broke him down both physically and mentally.

    He took a huge risk in taking that fight, considering that he was a light punching, former SMW, with a stop-start career.

    That was far more impressive than a win over Manny, irrespective of where Manny was ranked.

    Regarding the all time, P4P rankings, I have Floyd rated higher than Andre.
     
  3. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes he did.

    We've discussed this numerous times.
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We both know that he was never dehydrated to the point where he needed that IV. An IV that was classed as a medical emergency which should have required hospital admittance.
     
  5. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The other issue I have with Ward is that the fights that could've shown us stylistic weaknesses and how he would cope with them, for whatever reason, never happened. The top 3 for me that should've (and could've) happened, but didn't:

    Andre Dirrell - How would Andre cope with being at an athletic disadvantage?
    Adonis Stevenson - How does he handle an explosive, knockout punching southpaw with one punch power?
    Beterbiev - How does he handle a relentless physical monster who's more than happy to take him on on the inside?

    Maybe he wins them all, maybe he doesn't...but those are fights I wanted to see that would've proven his adaptability more than we saw.

    People like to hold Floyd's "cherry picking" against him because he'd stack the deck as best he could for himself as he went up in weight and got to be more Money than PBF. Floyd's far from alone in that(Andre did too, and it bothers me he's the only Super Six fighter that didn't have a road fight), but I see a much wider range of styles on Floyd's resume (even without the giant welters like Punisher and Margo), along with the greater depth of very good to great names, than I do for Andre.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I believe he did enough to win the first fight even with the knockdown.

    Nobody said that Kovalev was past prime when he fought Ward.

    He didn't need low blows to win the second. That's absolute nonsense. He systematically broke Kovalev down. The reason the fight was stopped was because Ward landed the big right hand, and then he followed up with numerous shots where Kovalev wasn't fighting back or defending himself. Yes, the last blow by Ward was extremely low. But the fight wasn't decided on that. Weeks had already made his mind up to step in, regardless of where that last shot landed. He stopped the fight based on what he'd seen in the entire round, not on that one specific shot. Anyone who says that Ward only won with a low blow is completely ignorant. Kovalev's tank was empty and his spirit had been broken. Just prior to the stoppage, Ward hit him with 2 great body shots that were 100% clean, yet all Sergey could do was to turn away and look at Weeks in total desperation.

    Why does Floyd deserve FOTD?

    10 fights, which included the circus against McGregor?

    The BS with Ortiz?

    The close win over Maidana?

    The ridiculous C-W against a young, naive Canelo?

    A win over an injured Manny with the IV scandal?

    Despite a few losses, Manny was more deserving of the accolade.
     
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  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're such a fan boy.

    It doesn't matter if non of those guys would have been favoured to have beaten him. The fact is, he retired to let them all fight each other. He was then pushed harder than what he thought with Oscar, which is why he wasn't willing to rematch him. And this was the 'Money' man who kept telling us that he was in the cheque cashing business.

    Regarding the saga with Manny, Manny had a legitimate reason for wanting the cut off days. You know that. The old 2005 articles are still online from when he fought Morales. The commission mislaid his blood tests and asked him for some more close to the fight. He said it weakened him and Morales even agreed with that statement. So he asked for the cut off days, but they could never reach a compromise, despite Manny also offering to undertake an immediate after fight blood and urine test. That should have been sufficient. But it wasn't. Both guys have huge egos and they couldn't agree. That's when they both went their separate ways.

    Floyd then continued to imply that Manny was dirty, even though he didn't have a shred of evidence. It culminated in the Mayweather's apologising in court and paying damages for defamation.

    A few years later, and Manny agreed to everything. Yet it still took ages to make, which proved it was never the testing that stopped an earlier fight from happening.

    You can say what you want, the fact is, Floyd was never as confident as beating Manny as what you were. Otherwise he would have fought him earlier.

    Nobody else had an issue fighting Manny back then, and Floyd never wanted any of his other opponents to undertake the same testimg before Snr spoke out.

    Floyd was a great fighter. One of the greatest of all time. But he never fully believed in himself, which is why we saw all of his BS throughout the years.

    Personally, I have Floyd beating any version of Manny. I think his huge reach would always have been the biggest factor.

    The funniest thing of all, is that after slandering Manny for years as well as making racist remarks, it was Floyd who was caught out with an illegal IV on his sofa. And I've never heard you defend that. The only thing you can do is to post up quotes of where they said there was no wrongdoing. But what you can't do, is explain how Floyd was so dehydrated that he needed that IV which was classed as a medical emergency. And the reason that you can't and won't discuss it, is because you know for a fact that Floyd's reasoning is completely and utterly ILLOGICAL.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  8. Pimp C

    Pimp C Stay Dangerous Full Member

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    You're such a hater. I already have explained the IV thing multiple times don't blame me that you didn't either see it or chose to ignore it. I have gone in depth about it do a search.
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How did Manny pull the biggest duck of the century?

    Get real.

    There was no reason for Floyd not to give Manny a cut off point, which included an immediate after fight blood and urine test.

    Floyd never demanded any of his other prior opponents to be tested that way.

    He never mentioned anything about cleaning up the sport prior to Manny.

    He was obviously unerved.

    The icing on the cake was his own IV scandal after years of slandering Manny without any evidence.
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    BS!

    You have explained nothing.

    The guy walks around just above his fighting weight like Marvin and Hopkins used to.

    He's a gym rat.

    He was only about 4 pounds out at the 30 day mark.

    He didn't have to dehydrate in order to make weight.

    He was healthy at the weigh-in, with everything being done.

    The last week is where they wind down.

    Yet all of a sudden, we're supposed to believe that he suddenly found himself so dehydrated, that he needed an IV which was classed as a medical emergency, where he should been admitted to hospital?

    Ha!

    We'll just forget about it though, because Bob Bennet said everything was fine.

    Nah!
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're looking at one specific point in a 5 year saga, and ignoring any other facts which you don't like.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreeing to Manny's weight penalty was easy for him, as he knew for a fact that he wouldn't breach it. That was just Manny's ego going H2H with Floyd. But Floyd agreeing to that without issue is why it's so hilarious that he claimed he needed an emergency IV because he was so severely dehydrated.

    Severely dehydrated from what exactly?

    It wasn't because of the weigh-in.
     
  13. Pimp C

    Pimp C Stay Dangerous Full Member

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    He couldn't give a urine sample and took a vitamin infused iv. You're not going to get any benefits from a ped a day before the fight. He had been tested multiple times before that day and after the fight, stop reaching. He was cleared, pac nor his camp didnt make a big deal about it why? Because they know it was no benefit taking a ped a day before a fight and it was no big deal. Haters like you want to make into something because you hate that pbf beat him easily and you want to try to discredit the win but too bad for you the result stands and he got full credit and it was factored into him getting fighter of the decade.
     
  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agree with all this, and that due to Floyd's lack of activity in the 2nd half of the decade I agree that Pacquiao was more deserving. Obviously Floyd was more deserving than Manny per year while he was active (and more deserving than Canelo for that matter) but what Canelo and Pacquiao did after Floyd retired surely put them ahead of Floyd for the decade.

    For Mayweather to win FOTD without fighting a legitimate boxer for almost half the decade is actually mad in my opinion. But I get the rationale : he beat Canelo and Pacquiao so in these people's minds nothing they could do could overcome that.

    As for Canelo vs Pacquiao would you agree that Canelo was more deserving than Pacquiao for FOTD? Pacquiao certainly accomplished a lot but the 4 losses stand out, 1 by KO. Vs Canelo who achieved more throughout the decade and didn't have any losses besides the one to Mayweather.
     
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  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not a Floyd hater. That's just your default setting for anyone who criticises him.

    I'm not a fan of Manny either.

    I've always said to you that I think that Floyd would always have beaten any version of Manny.

    He couldn't give a urine sample?

    Once again, why was he do severely dehydrated that it required an IV which was classed as a medical emergency?

    What had he been doing?
     
    Rock0052 likes this.


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