Andre Ward made 6 TITLE Defenses in nearly 6 years. Sven Ottke Made 21 in 5 and 1/2

Don't call either Rudy or Mads world class. They both were great boxers with a shot or two at a world title but not more. In any case not world class borxers - not even close.

 

they were world class. they fought on very even terms with Ottke who was world class.
Its like saying Groves isnt world class as he hadnt beaten anyone of top note when he fought Froch (Degale was a novice also at that time) yet Groves pushed Froch and still hasnt really beaten anyone of top note yet did fight on even terms with Jack

 

Haha. It just proves for me, that Ottke wasn't as good as he is rated by some. I don't see him up there with the best SMW. And i also rate Ward higher despite just 6 title defenses.

Rudy and Mads wasn't world class. Not a chance.

 

How have you proved anything?

Consider Ward has never once beaten a top undefeated fighter.
Kessler was a faded, double vision suffering fighter who had been beaten by the old end of career previous champ and he beat Froch.
Ward beats fatigued Froch who overall was not on a good run, and consider Froch was coming off a Mdec over an old faded, boiled down G Johnson who Ottke beat far more clearly when Johnson was prime and not boiled down.
So what have you proven?
What SMW as accomplished as Mundine has Ward KOd? He hasnt

Ottkes resume is far greater than Wards and only someone who doesnt know the division, is new to it, or was not watching what Ottke was doing at that time would think otherwise

 

Starie was giving Ottke problems and it was really when Starie stopped working as much that Ottke was barely doing enough

 

I don't see how Ottke's resume is far greater than Ward's.

 

You wouldnt because you have said previously that you were only a casual back then (possibly a bit young also) and would not have followed Ottke, but if you knew the division you would see that it is not even debateable.
I dont agree with alot of Ras al ghuls posts as I feel he trys to rewrite history and I havent answered various bits which I dont feel are correct, but he does have some knowledge of the division

 

I wasn't really a casual back then, but I was young, and yes, I don't know that much about Sven. But I've seen a good few of his fights, and I don't rate him as highly as what you do. His stats don't impress me that much, and I think he was very lucky to retire with his zero.

Andre hasn't got an amazing resume either, but I don't see how Sven's resume is by far superior.

 

Fair enough and fair play to the honesty. You probably notice I dont post too much about stuff before my time as you cant relly compare on the magnitude of things that you werent around for.

Ottkes resume is far greater as an overall SMW resume goes.
Im not talking about how he looked in some of those fights but just the stats of who he beat and it is impressive.

I know that I felt that Kessler was Wards best win and you felt Froch. Well to give you an idea, for Froch to get to the S6 final he had to get past a faded, boiled down G Johnson who had not looked impressive for some time. Froch did win by close debateable Mdec, yet Ottke was beating prime not boiled down G Johnson more convincingly over a decade earlier which highlights my point about how I feel the division wasnt as strong but better known.
That gives you an idea and Ottke was doing that before he had had 20 fights even.

 

I'm always honest.

I wasn't a casual, because I loved the sport and I used to order the boxing mags of the day, including back issues and videos from the classifieds. I also used to torment my parents to order all the PPV's too. But I wasn't a hardcore fan, as I didn't go out of my way to watch guys like Ottke, and I didn't have in-depth knowledge of the domestic scene.

I love reading yours and Ra's posts on the subject. You both have great knowledge.

I respect your opinion on Ottke. But you know I'm not one for statistics. I concentrate more on who a guy fights, at what point, and the manner of the victory, as well as looking at any and all circumstances that may have been a factor.

Ottke may have the better stats, but I don't see how his resume is superior. Also, it wouldn't look as great if they were a few losses on there.

I take on board your comments regarding Froch and Johnson. But look how Froch destroyed Bute who you rated very highly. Ward beat Froch with a double fractured hand before Froch destroyed him. Ward also beat Kessler easy, although it was a dirty fight. Does Ottke have any better wins? Would he have beaten Froch and Kessler? Again, I haven't seen a lot of Ottke, but I think he was overrated. At one point, his stats were better than Joe's. But he wasn't anywhere near as good as Joe.

 

...

 

As a mere slip of a lad in Ottke's time, I've retrospectively watched a fair few of his fights, but typically much less of his opponents, and have been lacking context.
Bailey and Ra's, this is most informative, and appreciated.

 

Easily explained!!! Ottke was on the fast track,the fastest runner boxing has ever seen.He could run circles around his opponents.I guess he would have beaten Carl Lewis and Ben Johnson even without taking drugs
Ward just doesnt play in his league.His legs are far too lame and heavy to keep up with the German sprinter:yep

 

Kessler got his eye injury after the Froch fight not before the Ward fight. And Kessler faded? He fought 3 times after his loss to Calzaghe, and won them all on KO. Then he had his fight against Ward, and he lost clearly. Even bigger on points to me than the scorecards showed before Kessler retired in the corner.

You were the one calling Groves a world class fighter, and he got beaten twice by Froch in his very late career. The Ward fight were in 2011, and i still believe that Froch was in his prime there in the super six final. Besides that Froch have beaten Robin Reid, Brian Magee (not a world class fighter at all, but he won vs both Mads L****n and Rudy Markussen), Pascal, Jermain Taylor, Andre Dirrell, Abraham, Bute, Kessler and 2x Groves.

Ra's al Ghul - Markussen weren't a great fighter. Are you kidding me? He only fought bums and ko'ed them. And he only fought 8 rounds fights before the fight vs Ottke. If you use Markussen and L****n as an argument for Ottke as a world class champion and fighter, then i am out. Mads L****n considered as one of the best SMW when he fought Ottke just proves how bad the division was at that time.

Ward is for me the better boxer - though he only have had 6 title defenses.

Edit: And Kessler wanted to fight Ottke after the Siaca fight, but Ottke retired few month before and wouldn't fight Kessler and stuck to the retirement.

 

Yes I think Ottke would have beaten past best, unwell, double vision suffering Kessler that Ward beat and I think Ottke would have very easily beaten Froch on points. You do mention who beaten and at what time and that was at that time.
Yes Ottke does have a win as good. His win of Mitchell was as good as Wards, Froch win at that time.
You mention Froch beating Bute, but Bute was also coming off a win over Johnson that Ottke had beaten over a decade earlier when not boiled down and faded.