Andre Ward made 6 TITLE Defenses in nearly 6 years. Sven Ottke Made 21 in 5 and 1/2

No probs

 

I see we wont agree. Personally i rate both Froch and Kessler higher than any of the boxers on Ottkes record list.

And skillwise i also rate Ward higher.

If or when he hopefully gets the fight vs Kovalev, i see him get KO'ed. I think Kovalevs power is too much to handle. Pascal is known for a pretty great chin, and he was KD by a Kovalev jab. Along with Golovkin, Kovalev is for me the best p4p boxer atm. But that's another discussion.

And sorry if i have some grammar wrong english is a foreign language to me.

 

I respect your opinion, and it's great fun to speculate.

From what I've seen of him, I don't know if he'd have beaten Kessler, and I can't envisage him beating Carl with ease.

Yes, Bute was coming off of a win over an older Johnson. But Carl absolutely destroyed Bute.

I know that styles make fights, but Andre Ward easily beat Carl with a double fractured hand, right before Carl destroyed Bute. So Andre's win was highly impressive.

Now I don't see how Sven's win over Byron Mitchell is better than Andre's win over Carl. Apart from beating a faded Liles, Mitchell didn't really beat anyone of note. I don't think he was as good as Carl. And again, if you factor in how easy Andre beat him, and the fact that he was injured, it has to be a better win. His hand was in a bad mess after the fight. So I don't see how Sven tops that.

:good

 

Good points.

For me, he obviously has the better statistics, but I don't see how his resume is superior, especially as he was fortunate to retire unbeaten.

Froch destroying Bute after losing to Andre who had a fractured wrist, shows how good Andre was, and that it was a top win.

I don't think Ottke has a better win than Andre's win over Froch.

 

Bailey,

Doesn't the same questions apply to Sven?

 

Do you rate Ward as the best LHW?

He needs to fight either Ward or Stevenson if not both, and i rate him as a big favorite against Stevenson and the favorite against Ward. The way he beated Hopkins was impressive - won every rounds with a margin.

Pascal is a quality boxer imo, and he has a great chin. Kovalev got caught numerous times in the first fight, but still won with a good performance and a TKO. I think the way he boxed in the 2nd fight was the best he have ever boxed. Just punished Pascal until Roach stopped the fight in the corner.

I don't see any bigger challenge for Kovalev in the LHW division so far other than Ward and Stevenson. The Ward fight is very likely to happen sometime soon. I don't think the fight with Stevenson will happen due to Stevensons contract with HBO and Stevensons age.

Maybe Beterbiev with his power can be a threat, but then i don't see anyone as a threat to Kovalev at all.

Pacquiao lost vs Mayweather, Klitschko lost vs Fury - and on the other hand Fury won vs a old Klitschko. Golovkin haven't fought any top fighter, but his KO power and style stil puts him in the top i'll say. Who else is up there? Bradley, Crawford or Canelo maybe?

 

You do try and rewrite history and have been made to look silly when doing that previously. Im not out to try and do that but stop being silly.
I agree Ottke won against Starie. That isnt in question, but Ottke had alot of trouble with Starie.
Starie didnt do a great deal but what he was doing was enough to keep it on even terms before he did less again.
Staries team were wanting him to do more as Starie looked very comfy, just not doing very much.

Not sure why you are mentioning Brit this or that?
I recall the studio commentary afterwards not being impressed at all with Ottke
Ottke won, I agree with that, but it wasnt easy for the first 3 quarters of the fight and alot of it looked due to the fact Starie just seemed to not work in an odd performance where it looked there for him to win

 

There is a good point in this.
Ottke was beating good fighters, but Wards wins were more highlighted due to a competition. When Ward fought Abraham, Abraham was 1-2 in his last 3 fights and the win was an injury win in a fight he was struggling in, when his opponent hurt his hand as I recall, so the win wasnt really anything to mention.
Froch was on a run where some felt he lost to Pascal who wasnt a top SMW, was losing after 11 rounds to Taylor who was 1-2 in his last 3 fights and not a top SMW, Dirrell who some felt he lost to, Lost to unwell double vision suffering Kessler coming off a loss, beat Abraham who wasnt a top SMW coming off a loss, and then fought faded, boiled down Johnson in a fight some felt he lost. Consider that in that mix the only top SMW Froch fought was Kessler. Due to hype and being a competition it was considered a big win, but was no better a win than Ottkes over Mitchell. If anything not as good when you consider Mitchell had beaten a top SMW and champ in Liles

 

Have a read of what I wrote in the previous comment in answer to this. He does have a good point and I have cut out the stats a bit

 

Does it?

sven beat undefeated future 2 time SMW champ Mundine
Sven beat undefeated Markussen
There were also fighters Ottke beat who could have claimed to have been undefeated but I wont get into that.

It gets forgotten over the years how good or not so good some fighters were, but L****n was a massive puncher and good SMW when Ottke fought him, like Green was when Beyer fought him and I would struggle to have picked Froch over those 2 at that time, which isnt to take anything away from any of these fighters, because I rate Froch highly

 

Ive already answered this in other posts, but look at Frochs run up to Ward

Froch was on a run where some felt he lost to Pascal who wasnt a top SMW, was losing after 11 rounds to Taylor who was 1-2 in his last 3 fights and not a top SMW, Dirrell who some felt he lost to, Lost to unwell double vision suffering Kessler coming off a loss, beat Abraham who wasnt a top SMW coming off a loss, and then fought faded, boiled down Johnson in a fight some felt he lost. Consider that in that mix the only top SMW Froch fought was Kessler and Froch lost that one.

Mitchell had beaten Liles who was in my opinion a greater SMW than Bute, fought to a draw with Girard who was a good fighter and who became a 2 weight champ, beat Siaca who becaame a SMW champ, beat Siaca again who became a SMW champ and scored a win over Mundine who himself became a SMW champ and beat top fighters like Green, beat JC Green who had beaten Joppy and then fought Sven, look at who Mitchell had beaten and what they had done at SMW and the Liles win is greater than anyone Froch beat in his career at that time in my opinion.

funny thing is, you know this but often say how you look at where fighters were at the time in their careers etc, well Froch wasnt on the best run and was possibly fatigued having been away for 5 of his last 6 fights

 

Ottkes reign was impressive.

For me, I cant see how anyone could have any SMWs rated higher on resume above Calzaghe, Eubank, Ottke and Collins would possibly come in for me after that with 2 wins over Eubank, 2 wins over Benn and the Sellier win

 

How do you know what Froch was thinking?