Andre Ward Vs Chad Dawson: A Technical Perspective

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by pong, Sep 11, 2012.


  1. pong

    pong Boxing Addict Full Member

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  2. Canibus81

    Canibus81 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The Lead hand with non-telegraphic movements is always the most important thing in any combat, the problem with the MMA fighters, they don't have the right footwork to advance in or retreat from a grappler coming in, if they did, they would be to shoot inside with jabs and get out. Bruce Lee understand this and he explains it in the Tao, and that's why he incorprated European Fencing as the base because you can shuffle in quicker because of the scienticfic mechanics behind it but you also needs outsides and insides if someone is rushing you or coming strong, basically the whole article, he's touching on things that most fighters don't notice because their not taught that. Centerline is why he was able to land his lead hand, and everyone has a center and so does every obect, but most people don't understand that either. Face to Face contact is how you keep everything centered when your sparring and if you have the right footwork and timing, you catch a person everytime with your lead hand, like Ward demonstrated. The problem with Dawson was no one taught him the importance of a check hand, kind of like Timothy Bradley used at times against pacquaio. If he knew how to use a check hand with his rear hand, he could of prevented himself from getting tagged with so many jabs, and that's the key in boxing against someone like ward who's advancing in on you with a jab. Dawson had the tools, he just didn't know how to use his tools against Ward. I've tried telling people all the time, that footwork is everything in combat because without that, you'll be off-balance and you won't be able to deal with someone who has faster hands than you, it'll never happened, unless your a brawler with a cast iron jaw and can take many to give one with a one punch power, other than that you'll get chopped up.
     
  3. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I was about to disagree with the premise of the article (the beginning was focusing on Ward circling "the wrong way") until they pointed out that he circled with great effect towards Dawson's right as well as the left.

    Personally, I feel circling "the wrong way" against an opponent with a lead hand as their power punch is indeed effective, but I believe it's more suited for jumping towards the inside; I would not stand in front of a southpaw in a straight line with my foot on the inside, even if he is right handed-the right hook counter is there (2nd round Ward-Dawson). Dawson's left came out and tagged Ward when he pulled straight back a few times in the mid-rounds, which further proves my point. Ward was able to circle in that direction and land the straight right to the body with his foot inside by coming in low and under either of Dawson's hands. Martinez also does this to great effect while stepping forwards towards the inside before circling out (Macklin, Dzinziruk). Marquez was also able to tag Manny with his lead foot on the inside whenever he ducked down low and advanced.

    The other way you can tag an oppositely-stanced opponent from the "wrong way" is by being all the way outside their rear hand, completely to their side. Only elite and fleet-footed fighters pull this off, usually with a quick hop to that side (Martinez, Pacquiao, Morales, Marquez). But Ward didn't need to do that to outjab and rough up Dawson from the inside angle and the outside leftwards angle.

    The article is real interesting and makes me look at things a bit differently by highlighting certain points, so thanks for posting.
     
  4. Canibus81

    Canibus81 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you knew how to spring in and out like a cobra you would and could. It's just simple physics because your attacking his centerline and anytime you attack anyones centerline, your punches and anything you hit him with will do more damage. I come from a jeet kune do backround and apply wing chun concepts to my game and the first thing I was taught was advance and retreat and displace shuffle. So I can see exactly what he was doing. Even grappling the person who controls the centerline will always win, and everybody thinks it's strength, but it isn't.
     
  5. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Well, that's why I mentioned springing forth towards the inside inside (and then back out of range) as the most suitable tactic for attacking straight on like that. Stepping in with his straight punches in a straight line gave Ward a lot of authority up close. The mechanics make sense. I just wouldn't sit there and be content to box from that position consistently, the angle is there for them to hit you in that same straight line as well.
     
  6. Canibus81

    Canibus81 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yup but they understand does mechanics behind it and it won't happen and you could clearly see in the fight with Ward and Dawson. Plus you need the right footwork and a good check hand with your rear to be able deal with a guy springing in quick like Ward did, because they you won't be able to stop him from landing effectively with the timing and the lead hand he took him apart with. Another thing people don't talk about is feinting. Feinting is very important with all things I just mentioned.
     
  7. trakam

    trakam Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ward Vs Dawson. I honestly thought it was a case of athleticism getting the better of technique. Dawson actually employs textbook boxing technique but lacks flair, slickness and most of all AGGRESSION.
    And he looks a bit chinny.
    I'd sum the fight up thus: Dawson tried to play chess but kept getting punched in the face.
     
  8. Ripple633

    Ripple633 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dawson knows how to use his tools, we saw that when he was with previous trainers. The problem with Dawson is that his skills to continue to decline because he switches trainers often. He was weight drained, but even if the fight was at 175 he would still lose. I'm of the few people who was disappointed in his fight against Hopkins. Hopkins who was 47, who had no jab, who fights in spots, and Dawson can barley beat him.

    Dawson can no longer throw the left cross properly which was evident in the Hopkins fight. Scully made Dawson fight in this weird shoulder-roll stance, so that everytime Dawson throws the left cross he is out of position. We saw that against Ward that when Dawson throws the left cross and misses he is open to an attack.

    There was no foot-movement from Dawson, his feet was literally glued to the canvas. Dawson needed to use foot-movement to create distance, but their gameplan was to fight Ward in the pocket which means he was open to all of Ward's attacks, head and body. As a matter fact Scully made it clear in the second round that their gameplan was to counter Ward coming in, he wanted Dawson to fight on the inside and give up his height and reach. Pure stupidity. Do you think if Floyd Sr or Emmanuel Steward was training Dawson they would make Dawson fight like that? Hell no. Offensively Dawson looked clueless, he didn't even know if he wanted to throw a left cross or right hook. When Dawson fought against Diaconu, he looked 5X better than he did against Ward. And I'm not saying that because Ward is obviously better than Diaconu. But watch that fight Dawson can throw the left cross correctly, he was using foot movement to create distance, he knew when to use his right or left hand, a lot of that credit goes to Emmanuel Steward.

    This is a combination of Ward being just too good, Dawson being weight drained, and his boxing skills eroding under Scully.
     
  9. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    He was tactically unprepared to do anything without his jab, and once he was neutralized, it was game over.