Andre Ward vs Joe Calzaghe

Maybe he had the power to so, but so did Froch, and Kessler, and Bika, and Allan Green, and Abraham, and Miranda and.......you get the point.

And who did Calzaghe do so to that even remotely approached the proficiency in the ring as Andre Ward?

 

If Ward has a bad chin then Joe's is made out of pure egg shell.

Calzaghe was dropped more times than Ward was and all by non punchers, a few of them even no name club fighters.

Ward was dropped only once as a boy in his 7th pro fight by a savage puncher with one shot KO power.

You talk total ****. Calzaghe has ONE ko to his name in 46 whole fights. Everybody else was stopped on their feet.

Joe could barely land a clean glove on old man Hopkins with no legs. He has even less a chance of getting his slaps off on Ward.

 

I'd say Ward wins, but it's an insane idea.

 

bailey,

I don't know the details, but the point is, people like to say that Andre ducked Bute, but he wasn't in the tournament, and Andre needed time off after he beat Froch. Andre had a broken hand, and he said he needed a rest and would let the fight build up etc. Then Froch stepped in. So I don't see how that constitutes as a duck.

He did say that, I agree. But in the end he broke his hand, and wanted some time out. If Bute had've beaten Froch they would have been huge pressure for them to fight, and they may have done. Nobody knows. But I find it hard to believe that he feared Bute, but was willing to take on Dawson. Again, I don't believe that's there's sufficient evidence to say that Andre ducked him.

The negotiations and the signing of the contracts for Bute and Froch would have been done sometime in Feb/March. Andre was only given the go ahead to resume training in mid Feb.

Again, Andre was out with a broken hand. Froch's camp would have agreed to face Bute sometime around Andre's rehab.

Ward didn't make an attempt to fight anyone until he was fully fit again.

So what?

He'd been out for long spells, and after Froch had beaten Bute, there was no demand for the fight. If Dawson hadn't have had weight troubles, that would have been a very intriguing fight.

I don't have to waffle out of anything.

1. He was out with a broken hand.

2. He never said he didn't want to fight Bute. He said he'd like to see Bute beat some other top guys, and let the fight build up. But then Froch destroyed him, and nobody seemed interested.

It's you that always tries to squeeze Joe's name into your debates. You're always telling us how Joe's win against Kessler is better than any of Ward's wins. So I pointed out that Joe was 35, and Andre is only 29. You seem to get upset if anyone says that Andre is better or has a better resume than Joe.

I'm confused.


For the last 2-3 pages, you've been telling everyone that Andre's best win was against Kessler, who was faded, rusty and unwell etc.

So if he was faded, rusty and unwell, why was that such a great win?

Surely beating Froch with a broken hand, who went onto destroy Bute, is a better win? No?


You need to think about what you're saying.

We're not debating who's better in Froch and Kessler.


We're debating what's Andre's best win.


Under the circumstances, it's surely his victory over Froch.



No, I don't really rate Roy's win over Telesco. But I think his win over Hopkins in 93 was underrated.

 

assassin,

This was always going to be your answer, that it was just Frank being bitter.

No he wasn't just being bitter, because if you actually read the link, he also gives him praise, and there's lots of very interesting things in there.

But you don't want to believe it, because you're in your own little fantasy.

After all, you told everyone a few months ago that when Joe said that he wasn't chasing Roy, he was in actual fact saying "Come on Roy, I want to fight, just stop messing me around."

Ha! That's beyond delusional.


Now I want you to read this.

In 2008, in the build up to Joe's fight with Roy, Enzo Calzaghe said that unless Joe was 100% fit, he wouldn't let him fight. He said it didn't matter how close they were to the fight, or who it was against etc, if he wasn't fully fit, he wouldn't let him fight.

I read that, and he also speaks about it in the documentary titled - No average Joe.

Now in that same documentary, and in the link, Frank says that for the first and only time in his career, he had to talk a fighter into not pulling out. He says that Joe tried to pull out with two weeks to go, and HE AND ENZO HAD TO TALK HIM ROUND.

So what does that say to you?


1. Why would Enzo have talked his son into taking a fight if he was genuinely injured??


2. Why have Enzo or Joe NEVER denied Frank's claims??



Below are some of Frank's comments from the link.


"He would regularly pull out fights at short notice for reasons he felt were valid. But it left me to sort out the mess with opponents furious, and TV execs who were pulling there hair out."


"I recall that when I vetoed a fight with Freeman Barr, a dreadful mediocre, No. 1 challenger who meant nothing, Joe said he wanted to face him."


"For much of Joe's career, I worked with U.S. TV network Showtime and they nicknamed him 'No show Joe' because of the pull outs and the fact that he'd refuse to travel to the States to promote his fights."


(regarding Lacy) "He insisted a couple of weeks beforehand he was injured and couldn't fight. Both his Dad Enzo and I had to persuade him to step through the ropes, something I've never done with a boxer, before or since. Had he been left to his own devices, it may never have happened."


(regarding his final fight with Roy) "I preferred a Pavlik fight, as although Jones was a former P4P number 1, he was way past his best, a fact widely accepted in boxing. In the 2008 edition of his autobiography, Joe states that Roy is "washed up" and in an interview with Boxing Monthly said he had "No interest" in fighting Jones, who describes as "not a great fighter anymore" observing that "Roy's resistance is gone."



SO, ARE YOU GOING TO COMPLETELY SHUT YOUR EYES AND DISMISS ALL OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS??

But again, Andre had a broken hand, and was only given the go ahead to resume training in Mid Feb. He wanted a break, and said he'd let a potential fight with Bute build up. That was his right, and it doesn't constitute as a duck.

Nobody at the time knew how much Dawson was going to struggle with the weight. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Dawson had no problem agreeing to 168.

Are you telling me that Andre knew 100% that it would be an easy win, because he knew that Dawson would struggle so badly?

How would Andre have known back in Jan/Feb when he'd be fighting again?

He knew for a fact that Froch was going to destroy Bute?

Joe ducked the challenge of fighting in America, up at 175, even though in 2004, he said that he needed to do it, because he wanted recognition and there was nothing left to achieve at 168. The fighters that you've mentioned above, don't even fight in Andre's weight class. But he's just come back from a long lay off, and he's only 29. So I'm sure we'll see him in some big fights soon.

If you've no problem with the Rodriguez fight, then why did you make your sarcastic comment to Herol?

 

its just you saying I'm the joke poster, I get into debates all the time with everyone.

its everyone who says that you arent taken seriously, and says so in answer to your posts.

work that out. take your time.

 

assassin,

In 2004, Joe said he wanted recognition and big fights. He spoke of going to America, and up to 175. But he remained at 168 and fought Mkrtchyan, Salem and Veit.

He couldn't have known in 2004, that Hopkins would be moving up in 2006, and they'd fight in 2008. Not unless he's psychic.

He fought Kessler in 2007, people were interested in a Pavlik fight, instead of a Roy fight in 2008.

Why would he have wanted to fight Roy, after he'd said he was no longer great, and he'd be disappointed if he was to be his last fight??

Joe could have fought Pavlik and taken the credit that Hopkins got, instead of fighting someone who he said was washed up, and he wasn't interested in.

It was Joe's fault that he only got his recognition and big money fights, just two years earlier. That was his own fault for fighting in Britain, and hugging his lightly regarded 168 belt for the majority of his career.

If he'd have moved up to 175 earlier and gone to the States, he wouldn't have been forced into fighting the likes of Peter Manfredo for U.S. exposure at 35 years of age.

 

He called out Roy PLENTY OF TIMES ON TV?

After he beat Will McIntyre, he said "I'd like to fight the likes of Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins."

I bet Roy and HBO were jumping around their TV sets listening to that.

 

Where's the evidence and the logic exactly??

He was only given the go ahead to start training again in Feb of last year, so he wasn't going to be arranging any fights at that point.

But when he did, he fought another skilful southpaw with a better pedigree.

So where's the logic in being scared of Bute, and instead fighting Chad Dawson?

 

Go and read ALL of the links.

 

:rofl :rofl :rofl