Andre Ward vs Joe Calzaghe

I know that Jones-Calzaghe were in talks in 02 about a possible fight... I was a casual fan back then, followed Jones, Lennox, Mosley, ODLH, pretty much just the big names..

I had not heard of Calzaghe back then, and that fight would not have been marketable here in the US for fighters of that caliber in the ring... Easy for me to understand why Roy turned his attention to moving up to HW.

 

You can't deny that Ward fought very dirty. Holding is a part of the tactics, but headbutting the opponent is dirty and I felt that Kessler was cheated in that fight.
I don't know why did he accept to go to Ward's hometown to fight, since Kessler was the number one guy and Ward was just a prospect. If the fight took place in Denmark instead of Oakland, I feel it would have been really close.
Also, don't get me wrong, I agree that Andre Ward is the better boxer. I just felt that he didn't defeat Kessler fair and square.

It's not easy to determine who is better between the fighters until they actually fight in the ring. Imo, Calzaghe would win an UD as Ward would find it hard to answer to Joe's workrate. I see Calzaghe outlanding Ward in every round with Andre possibly winning a couple of them. Also, Ward isn't a type of a guy that goes there, walks through the shots and knock an opponent out, so it would be extremely difficult for him to defeat someone like Calzaghe.

 

I have no issues with that. I see the fight at 50/50, always kind of leaned ever so slightly toward Calzaghe.

Ward roughed Kessler up, no doubt. But he was handling Kessler fairly easily before the butts, IIRC. I think people are kidding themselves if they think Ward only won because of the butts. He was simply too quick for Kessler. And to me, that is part of the reason the butts happened. Ward would tag him from the outside and leap in to close the distance; stay out of mid range, where Kessler was dangerous.

 

What top SMWs did Calzaghe not face that were chasing him? I recall Ward didnt fight Bute who was chasing him

How is it true?
Which SMWs did Calzaghe avoid?

Wards main rival and arguable best win is a Calzaghe victim atsch, who was unwell, rusty and past best. In fact 2 of wards top 5 wins are Calzaghe victims and his win over Froch is tainted by Froch losing to an unwell Calzaghe victim coming off a loss
Calzaghe beat all his main rivals when he moved out of SMW.
Calzaghe agreed to fly when Hopkins agreed to face him only for Hopkins to alledgedly change his demand

Around half of Calzaghes 24 world title fights were in a different country to where he was living and grew up

How is it different?
Do you think Ward would get a bigger crowd in America? Didnt look that way when he fought Dawson.
How would Calzaghe in America at SMW be a good move? Calzaaghe beat all of the top American SMWs of his era that would face him - Sheika, Brewer, Manfredo, Mitchell, Lacy
How would America have been a good SMW move when the big SMW fight were in Europe

 

haha! nice try chump. ward was in this thing called the super six. it's a tournament that your hero wouldn't have even considered taking part in. you know it, i know it and joe knows it. ward couldn't fight everyone at once. ward would have faced bute if he'd got by froch.

btw, how do you think calzaghe would fair vs kovalev? what a total nightmare style matchup for joe. good thing he's retired or he'd have another fighter to duck.

 

Calzaghe would easily beat Ward, but Ward would have refused that fight. Ward will only fight in his home town with his referee, judges, boxing commission , etc. Ward does not believe in a level playing field..........

 

Lets just break down this terrible post atsch.
So you dont think Calzaghe would enter the S6 like Ward did. Why not? Ward was the home fighter throughout and had most of his fights at home.
Lets look at the facts. Wards biggest win of the S6 was a faded, rusty, unwell double vision suffering fighter that Calzaghe had beaten when prime. Ward was never considered the away fighter and never in the S6 fought an undefeated fighter, during that time 2 out of the 5 fighters he fought while the comp ran were Calzaghe victims that Calzaghe beat when not faded and when they were prime and all the other fighters had losses that date back to fighters who lost to fighters that Calzahe beat.

So here goes in Wards S6 -
1. beaten by Calzaghe, faded Kessler
2. Green
3. beaten by Calzaghe faded rusty Bika
4. Abraham on a run of 1-2
5. Froch beaten by Kessler and on a run of late stoppage after being outboxed by on a poor run Taylor, debateable decision to Dirrell, loss to faded Kessler coming off a loss, win over Abraham, debateable decision to faded, boiled down SMW journeyman G Johnson

Do you think that would worry Calzaghe when a faded version beat -
1. undefeated SMW world champ Lacy
2. prime Bika
3. Manfredo
4. undefeated unified SMW world champ Kessler
5. LHW world champ Hopkins

Now you say Ward would have fought Bute if Bute hadnt of lost to Froch, but why didnt Ward fight Bute in the first place? The biggest SMW fight and Ward decided not to.

Then you bring up Kovalev for some reason and say if Calzaghe was around now when he has been retired for many years? Odd thing to write, but with that, do you think Ward should be facing Kovalev in that case? Even more odd in that there are some who would pick 48 year old Hopkins to beat Kovalev.

Just like the old days . Kmac leaves his chin out for me to land at will :yep

 

only cos just like the old days he knows your points are still more featherfisted than Joe C

 

It was in relation to what you were discussing.

 

Bailey,

I don't care if Froch had a tough schedule. I'm looking at things from Andre's perspective. Froch did have a tough schedule, but Andre Ward won the tournament, and it was up to him what he wanted to do. He'd earned that right. He'd won the tournament with a broken hand, and he wanted a break, that's mentioned in your own ESPN link from Dec, 2011. That was his prerogative.

Because he was injured, and was taking some time off, and was in no rush to get back in the ring again. I've never denied that he didn't say the winner of the tournament should face Bute. But guess what? In life, peoples circumstances change. Andre's circumstances changed. He broke his hand in two places, and wasn't sure when he'd be back in action. He didn't get the go ahead till mid Feb. Now reading those interviews, his opinion on Bute also changed. He felt like he'd done all of the hard work, while Bute wasn't beating top guys. That was his opinion, which is also in the links that you've posted. But Andre being injured, and forming a different opinion, doesn't constitute as a duck. Especially when he fought Dawson after 9 months out. Seriously, who would duck Bute out of fear, and then fight Dawson after been out of action for nearly a year? It would be illogical.

We're going around in circles.

I said Dawson was more proven as a whole, and you know that, that's why you're specifically talking about 168.

Once again, if Andre feared a 6'1 Bute, with question marks over him, why would he have fought another 6'1 southpaw who was more proven?

How likely would that have been?

The fact that he fought Dawson after 9 months out, should tell you that he didn't fear Bute.

Yes, before Bute lost to Froch, it would have been a very big fight. But Andre said he wanted a rest, and was happy to sit back etc. Have you got psychic powers? How do you know that if Bute was still undefeated, that they wouldn't have fought, or that they'd be planning to fight? Froch came runner up in the tournament and is a name at 168. So had Bute beaten Froch, there'd probably have been a huge demand for both fighters to meet. There's no evidence of Andre ducking. A broken hand after winning the Super Six, and a change of opinion, is not enough to declare it a duck. Not when he'd beaten Kessler, Froch and then signed to fight Dawson.

That didn't mean that they were question marks. That just meant people knew his strengths and weaknesses, and how capable he was. But there were lots of question marks over Bute, and the people that doubted him were proven right weren't they?

Froch in your opinion lost to a past his best Kessler. In my opinion he lost to Andre Dirrell, and was lucky against Taylor. He then lost to Andre Ward who'd broken his hand.

Then what happened?

He went and destroyed Bute.

So again, the doubters were proven right.


Chad Dawson was more proven, even though he'd got a loss on his record.

I think the bigger fight would have been Andre Vs Bute.

I've already agreed that. That's not what we're debating. What we're debating is, whether or not there's sufficient evidence at hand to prove that Andre ducked him.

I would suspect that quite a few people would have thought that Hopkins would have beaten him, because again, there were many doubters. There's people on here today that think Hopkins would beat Froch and Kovalev etc. I've read the comments. The point is, both are big southpaws, and it would be illogical to have feared one, but then have had no qualms about facing the other.

That's fine. I was merely pointing out, that you'd repeatedly mentioned that Kessler was rusty, faded and unwell etc, but were claiming that he was Andre's best win. But again, beating a guy with a broken hand, pretty comfortably, who then went and destroyed a guy who you were impressed with, has to be up there.

I didn't say it was a massive rest. I said that at the time of winning the Super Six, in Dec, 2011, he wanted a rest, and he didn't know how long he'd be out for.

He was only looking to fight in May and June, AFTER he'd had the all clear to resume training in mid Feb.

But he wasn't in a position to make that decision after he'd just beaten Froch. At that point in time, he didn't know when he was coming back.

Ha!


That link is from April, 2012.

At that point in time, he was ready to go. He was looking to fight again, because he'd been back in full training since February.



Now go back and look at your ESPN link from December, 2011.

It's post 179, on page 12.



At that point in time, he was injured, and he WANTED A BREAK.

He says that himself. IT WAS HIS OWN OPINION.



In Dec, 2011, he wanted a break.


In April, 2012, he was looking to fight again.



His circumstances had changed within that four month period.


But you don't ever allow for circumstances.

Again, Andre's circumstances had changed, along with his opinion.


But is that enough evidence to say that he ducked him?


I don't believe so.

 

Is he ****!!!

 

Loudon pt1

 

Loudon pt2