Andy Ruiz has become criminally underrated

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Redbeard7, May 5, 2023.


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  1. chico g

    chico g Let's watch some Sesame Street...lmao Full Member

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    Ruiz is just a really dangerous brawler, like Tua and Sam Peter were. But Joshua fought a stupid fight against him. Like if Wlad and Lewis would have decided to go for the stoppage in 3 rounds, they would have been flattened too. You don't go for the stoppage until the last couple of rounds, against some fighters.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2023
    chico g, May 10, 2023
    chico g, May 10, 2023
    #46
    rusev, Redbeard7 and ipitythefool like this.
  2. Manning

    Manning Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dustin Nichols used this same tactic against Wilder. Brought the big puncher into a false sense of security which saw him showboating before being flattened and put on his arse. Notice too how the extra weight meant Wilder wasn’t able to actually hurt Nichols who was able to handle his power quite easily.
     
    Manning, May 10, 2023
    Manning, May 10, 2023
    #47
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  3. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No reason to believe Ortiz was still top 10 when he fought Ruiz. None of his recent results would back up such a high ranking and the Wilder losses were years earlier. There's very little to back up a top 10 ranking for Ruiz himself. Beating Arreola is unimpressive and given Ortiz's age and recent performances that doesn't seem like a very impressive win either.
    Jared Anderson and Martin Bakole are probably better than Ruiz at this stage.

    In order to lose to someone you have to actually fight them in the first place and given how many dangerous opponents Joshua hasn't fought theres no way to assess how impressive Ruiz beating him actually is.

    Joshua hasn't fought among others
    Fury
    Wilder
    Hrgovic
    Zhang
    Makhmudov
    Bakole
    etc etc etc
     
    Cojimar 1946, May 10, 2023
    Cojimar 1946, May 10, 2023
    #48
  4. Kiwi Casual

    Kiwi Casual Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Probably worth noting that nobody on that list has fought each other either, except Wilder v Fury.
     
    Kiwi Casual, May 10, 2023
    Kiwi Casual, May 10, 2023
    #49
  5. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    A lot of talented fighters are simply ignored and don't manage to land big fights. Imagine what Zhang, Hrgovic, etc could have achieved had they received the opportunities Fury did. We may never know how good many of these guys are.

    Fury fighting Wilder though doesn't really have any bearing on Joshua as he hasn't beaten either of them.
     
    Cojimar 1946, May 10, 2023
    Cojimar 1946, May 10, 2023
    #50
  6. piprules

    piprules Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah he is overrated now if anything.
     
    piprules, May 10, 2023
    piprules, May 10, 2023
    #51
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  7. lobk

    lobk Original ESB Member Full Member

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    Underrated? If anything fat boy is overrated. Look at his performance since Joshua.
     
    lobk, May 11, 2023
    lobk, May 11, 2023
    #52
  8. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Anderson's best win is journeyman Forrest (who has had a lot of beatings) and Bakole's is either Kuzmin who lost badly to Hunter or Yoka, who just lost badly to 42 year old Takam. Bakole was also stopped by Hunter, who drew with a 40 year old Povetkin and lost badly to Usyk. Makhmudov had a distance war with 41 year old Takam. On that form, the Takam who fought Joshua (perhaps Joshua's 11th best opponent, who Joshua dominated) would have had a great chance of beating Bakole and Makhmudov. Zhang has a very good win over Joyce and gave a great account vs Hrgovic but Joshua has beaten better fighters than Joyce has, let alone Hrgovic. Joshua is without question a top 4 heavyweight in terms of beating quality fighters.

    There could be 10 fighters in the division somewhere or other who are better H2H than Ruiz but there are certainly not 10 who have come close to proving it, even with the limited opportunities some have had. Wlad, Povetkin, Whyte and Parker all lost to Joshua and the first three got stopped, whereas Ruiz stopped Joshua and went the distance in the rematch. The Parker fight would have gone the other way in Mexico and probably in America too. Ortiz was still a skilled, powerful and determined southpaw and Ruiz navigated the fight. It's far easier to argue that Ruiz is top 5 than outside the top 10 based on what he's accomplished. And it's not like Ruiz was given unique opportunities; he seized his 2nd chance (against a much stronger opponent than Parker) where most others did not.
     
    Redbeard7, May 11, 2023
    Redbeard7, May 11, 2023
    #53
  9. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tua and Peter were more threatening (much harder to underestimate) and less humiliating (less pressure) to lose to than Ruiz though. Ruiz was uniquely dangerous because he didn't seem dangerous at all: Peter 1 was favourite to beat career-low point Wlad and 20 lbs overweight inactive Tua was apparently a 4/1 underdog, rather than 15/1 or 25/1 like Ruiz.
     
    Redbeard7, May 11, 2023
    Redbeard7, May 11, 2023
    #54
    chico g likes this.
  10. BoB Box

    BoB Box "Hey Adam! Wanna play Nintendo?" Full Member

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    Maybe overweighted against AJ 2. Maybe underweighted against Arreola but underrated? Nah
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
    BoB Box, May 11, 2023
    BoB Box, May 11, 2023
    #55
  11. Joy_Rones

    Joy_Rones Member Full Member

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    Objective lmao. You are one of the most biased posters on this forum, how dare you even use this word?. You do wild interpretations of reality to fit your narrative.
    Ruiz is suddenly underrated? If anything that fat bast*rd is overrated.
     
    Joy_Rones, May 12, 2023
    Joy_Rones, May 12, 2023
    #56
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  12. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ruiz is fat trash. aj losing to him says more about aj than it does Ruiz
     
    MarkusFlorez99, May 12, 2023
    MarkusFlorez99, May 12, 2023
    #57
    chico g likes this.
  13. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    AJ haters don't want to give him credit because they want Joshua to look as **** as possible.
     
    Vegan Beast, May 12, 2023
    Vegan Beast, May 12, 2023
    #58
  14. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    McCall was crackhead trash and Rahman was a Ruiz-victim himself.

    You weren't saying this when you still held hope of Joshua beating Fury.
     
    Redbeard7, May 12, 2023
    Redbeard7, May 12, 2023
    #59
  15. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Because "objectivity" is believing that American 200-229 pounders from 50-60 years ago constituted an immortal "golden era" of talent and that everyone forgot how to box post-2003. Ok. As if that isn't entirely ideological.

    How can Ruiz be "overrated" if his win over Joshua is typically dismissed as being lucky? It's not like Joshua outslugged him in the rematch. The same thing would have probably happened again.
     
    Redbeard7, May 12, 2023
    Redbeard7, May 12, 2023
    #60
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