Another "order of greatness"

coronacards · Nov 26, 2007

1) Bernard Hopkins
2) Felix Trinidad
3) Winky Wright
4) Chris Eubank
5) Antonio Tarver
6) Joe Calzaghe
7) Mikkel Kessler
8) Jeff Lacy

BewareofDawg · Nov 26, 2007

Rumsfeld said:

Felix Trinidad
Chris Eubank
Antonio Tarver
Jeff Lacy
Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe

How would you rank the above 8 in terms of greatness?

:smoke
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Hopkins
Wright
Trinidad
Lacy - I put him above Calzaghe because of the courage he showed in traveling across seas in search of greatness....something Calzaghe is clearly afraid to do.
Calzaghe
Kessler
....
.....
.....
....
.....
Tarver

I left Eubank off, don't know much about him :good

Brickhaus · Nov 26, 2007

I don't see any rational way you could not rank Hopkins first and Lacy last here. Anyone setting it out otherwise really needs to get detailed with their rationale.

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

Brickhaus said:

I don't see any rational way you could not rank Hopkins first and Lacy last here. Anyone setting it out otherwise really needs to get detailed with their rationale.
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Agreed--that much should be an absolute given!

From there, it's debatable for #'s 2-4, and depends on largely on personal preference, but 2 through 4 SHOULD be some order of Trinidad, Wright, and Calzaghe on everyone's list.

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

BritInvasion said:

Why ask a ****in question then?
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Because I wanted to, shithead.

1+1 is a question with an absolute answer.
Boxing is about opinions. Don't be suprised that people don't agree with you, particularly re Calzaghe/Hop.
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What's your point?

:smoke

Danny Ocean · Nov 26, 2007

IntentionalButt said:

How does Tarver over Kessler get justified?
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win over harding,wins over jones,win over johnson

Danny Ocean · Nov 26, 2007

yesihavearm said:

Rofl, just a list of Calzaghe's opponents to Hopkins.

You really are obsessed with Joe aint ya ?

Well considering that Trinidad and Tarver are both FINISHED and Kessler and Lacy are both in their Prime and will do a lot more in the sport.

1. Calzaghe
2. Trinidad
3. Hopkins
4. Eubank
5. Wright
6. Kessler
7. Lacy
8. Tarver

Look for Lacy and Kessler to move up that list in years to come.
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hopkins
trinidad
eubank
calzaghe
winky
tarver
kessler
lacy

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

BritInvasion said:

You said 'its an absolute given'. Its not. Dick.
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So you think, in terms of greatness, that Calzaghe should be rated ahead of HOPKINS??

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Share the drugs!

:smoke

Pimp C · Nov 26, 2007

Rumsfeld said:

Felix Trinidad
Chris Eubank
Antonio Tarver
Jeff Lacy
Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe

How would you rank the above 8 in terms of greatness?

:smoke
Click to expand...

1.Hopkins
2.Calzaghe
3.Winky
4.Eubank
5.Tito
6.Tarver
7.Kessler
8.Lacy

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

BritInvasion said:

Check my post. I had Hopkins at #1. Rating Joe ahead of Hop ain't no stretch however, and is perfectly justifiable.
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I think it's quite a stretch to any objective observer.

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

BritInvasion said:

I don't think a stretch to any non-partisan supporter of either fighter. Two top class fighters at similar weight with lengthy reigns. One undefeated, One with bigger names but a number of defeats. Of course it is a close call.
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Given that the three biggest names on Cal's resume are Lacy, Eubank, and Kessler, I'm hard-pressed to see how this ISN'T a stretch.

:smoke

Rumsfeld · Nov 26, 2007

BritInvasion said:

Can you post without that ridiculous ****ing icon everytime? I got some news for ya, it don't add any weight to your opinion.

Lacy, Eubank and certainly Kessler were a bigger threat at SMW than Winky was at LHWrofl), Oscar at Middle or Tito at Middle. Sure, they are bigger names, but you HAVE to factor in the fact they were smaller guys (and in Oscar's case a part time fighter). Joe's best wins are at least against guys genuinely his size.

Would you have given Joe more credit for beating Manny Pac or Mikkel Kessler? With your point of view, I'm genuinely not sure.
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This notion that Hopkins beat smaller men is growing most tiresome, especially considering he was a 4:1 underdog against Trinidad, who had just blasted Joppy, and he was a 3:1 underdog against Tarver, who was top dog in the light heavyweight division. Need I remind you that Hopkins jumped over an entire weight class for this fight to happen and that he dominated the best light heavy in the world.

At the end of the day, Calzaghe fans tend to overcompensate for his lack of quality opponents by undermining other fighters, which is silly.

In the end, Hopkins defeated THREE foes who were universally recognized as top pound-for-pound fighter; to date, Calzaghe holds no such victories, and that's the bottom line.

:smoke

cuchulain · Nov 26, 2007

Rumsfeld said:

Felix Trinidad
Chris Eubank
Antonio Tarver
Jeff Lacy
Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe

How would you rank the above 8 in terms of greatness?

:smoke
Click to expand...

At this point in their careers:

Calzaghe : Record number of defences. Beaten all at 168. Undefeated.

BHOP: Record number of defences. Beat the man who beat the man at 175.

Trinidad: Not a factor above 154. Great welterwt. Unified belts

Chris Eubank : Held 168 for long time. Lots of defences

Mikkel Kessler: Unified two belts . undefeated excet for Calzaghe.

Winky Wright: Great as a jnr middlewt. few defeats. Not a big factor at 168

Tarver: Good solid 175er. Beat (an admittedly shot) Roy.

Lacy: Undefeated (except for Joe)

The foregoing may change, as most of them are works in progress.

cuchulain · Nov 26, 2007

IntentionalButt said:

Acceptable.
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Not sure how.

Roy was shot after Ruiz and Tarver still managed to lose to him.

Tarver, like Douglas and Rahman, was a one-trick pony.

cuchulain · Nov 26, 2007

Rumsfeld said:

Another analysis through the eyes of a simpleton. Well done!

It seems much more likely that each will 'drop' in stature as time goes by. Neither was anything special.

As for Trindiad and Wright being "small", this is nothing more than a pathetic attempt by Calzaghe fans to overcompensate his own lack of credentials.

Trinidad was middleweight champion and a 4:1 betting favorite when Hopkins annhilated him. He had just easily dispatched of William Joppy, and nobody--I mean NOBODY was giving Hops much of a chance.

As for Winky, he was universally recognized as a P4P elite when Hopkins outclassed him.

:smoke
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I called that one for Hopkins and made some money on a pretty predictable 'longshot'.

Tito has only one decent win at middlewt. He's not been a player above 154.

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