Anthony Joshua is still a superb fighter

I think Joshua has to bring the pressure for all 12 rounds, I would agree. How does he expect to win a decision if he gives the first 4 rounds away? I do feel Joshua can improve but Usyk fought a perfect fight. So my gut feeling is the rematch will be closer but I still favout Usyk to pull it out.

 

I see a bit of General syndrome in some of these posts. Moan that fighters take no risks, then cut them down when they do and lose.

Every sport is only as good as it fans, and when you read these threads it's easy to understand why boxing is what it is today.

 

"It isn't like he was stopped"

True. He was knocked all over the ring by a morbidly obese little guy on short notice in Andy Rice Pudding Jr, and eventually gave up.

But at least he wasn't knocked out against Usyk.

 

Frazier had already paid his dues by beating the best that the division had to offer, before Foreman came along - including one of the greatest victories in heavyweight boxing history. Any complaints about Frazier would have lacked credibility by default.

This is not the case for Joshua. I don't think it is unfair to criticize him or dispute that he is or ever has been, to this point, a "superb" fighter. He is a good fighter, amongst the current crop of Heavyweights. Big, strong, carries power etc etc. However, he is yet to beat the very best of his own era, let alone be realistically considered competitive in any other era - especially the 70s or the 90s.

He has the chance and the time to add something better to his career record and perhaps alter some of the current, unfavorable perspectives of him but, right now, he is apt to be castigated.

 

I think mentioning the fact that AJ has a chance to really prove himself now is of utmost pertinence.

At this point AJ is one step above fellow two-time champ Shannon Briggs....and that's pretty much it. A victory over the winner of Fury-Wilder or a consummate stoppage of Usyk would be a huge brick in his wall. I'd personally be pretty damn impressed by either.

 

If he comes back and nails Usyk to the canvas, it would re-establish his viability for the top-flight. But, ultimately, he's got to beat Fury, in my opinion.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

Top 10 in any era, but he was never superb. There are a handful of eras where he doesn't win the title at all, barring political maneuvering.

 

I guess it depends how you define 'superb'. He dominates against and absolutely runs through the likes of Martin, Brezeale and Molina. Outside of that kind of level, he tends to struggle, look a little bit limited or even lose as we've seen. A 41-year-old Wladimir, coming off a loss and seventeen months of inactivity, is still his best win and even then he had his hands full (should never have been ahead at the time of the stoppage, for me).

Not that there's any shame in any of this - it's still been enough to unify belts and put on some exemplary performances, earning an eye-watering amount of money in the meantime. But I think the overblown hype and cloying protection of Joshua from Matchroom and much of the media (particularly here in the UK) has made people tire of him a little and probably less likely to cut him a bit of slack.

I think it's quite a regular occurrence, and not just in boxing: the powers that be with vested interests sell us a vision of a sportsman; go overboard in prematurely proclaiming their greatness; the guy in question gets brought back down to Earth with a bang and hits a rough patch; swathes of fans realise they've been conned and that said sportsman was not quite at the level they thought; and then as a way of 'evening it up' or whatever they go too far in the other direction and write them off as a total fraud who was never any good.

He's like a Heavyweight De La Hoya, I guess.

 

Top 10 in the 70s and 90s? I guess so. I think.

Frazier, Foreman, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Young, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tua, Mercer, Morrison, Quarry, Shavers, Lyle, Golota, Coetzee, Page, Thomas, Smith, Witherspoon, Tucker, Douglas, Bruno...I'm not sure AJ convincingly beats ANY of them, or even wins againt the vast majority of those names, to be honest.

I'm not sure he wouldn't get stopped by even Bruno, Smith, Spoon, Morrison, Golota, Mercer, Coetzee, Page....

Maybe top 10, the lowest rungs of the top 10.

 

Good stuff, actually great stuff here.

 

This for me too , when the going gets tough , the tough get going ,, not the case with AJ

 

Yes, he'd be top ten. Joshua doesn't need to win the majority against thirty years worth of names to be top ten.

 

No, I can't imagine Joshua getting off the mat these days. His champion's heart seems to be gone.

 

Exactly, spot on ...