Anthony Joshua vs Archie Moore

Ruiz was a substitute for top ten ranked Miller.Same as Takam was a sub for top ten ranked Pulev.

 

I'm impressed that a 6'6" near 17stone man could fight on his toes for 12 rds.I don't expect you to give him any
credit.

 

Ruiz was in the top 15 of any credible organizations ratings,You're turning into Choklab!

 

I was undecided until the weigh in,then I had a bet on AJ.

 

AJ took Ruiz as a sub,I dont see why he should be criticized for that ? Wlad and Vitali fed on guys not ranked .I see a clear difference.Wlad lost to 2 men not ranked by the Ring and by ko. Look at some of their defences.
Charr
Leapai
Thompson
Pianeta
Austin
Brock
Chisora
Williams
Briggs
Sosnowski

 

He outboxed a short fat man. Not his fault Ruiz showed up this way. A KO win would have evened up the ko loss.

I don’t think he pressed it enough in the rematch which he won easily.

 

So far nobody has stopped Ruiz, he seems to have a top chin.

 

Probably does. AJ has enough power to stop him. He really don’t try to stop him.

Instead because Jabbed and danced his way to avenge the loss. Maybe if Ruiz was 260 AJ would be forced to fight him.

 

Maybe,but it wasn't AJ's fault,he had no way of knowing what Ruiz would weigh.AJ fought a smart fight,a winning one.

 

True, the squeaky wheel gets the most grease. An empty barrel makes the most noise. It ain't over till it's over. And don't go swimming right after eating.

Prime Moore, the man with the second most KO's in boxing history, KO's Joshua late. Joshua could not use his Ruiz avoidance strategy, nor could he use the attack strategy. Moore wears out AJ's body while taking a few good head shots, maybe even going down once, then smashs AJ's chin in the 13th or 14th round.

 

There is such an enormous difference in skill and strategy (which are 2 separate categories contrary to popular belief) yet there is also the obvious difference in their size and weight.

How do we break this down?

Power:

Both guys could hit. Joshua being more of a thudding puncher who hurts you with text book accurate shots with power generated from his sheer mass and weight (a 6'6 frame with 235-240 lbs when in his best condition).

Moore has even better technique and more importantly, knows when to punch. While he obviously has less raw power shot per shot, he is far sneakier and can catch you with things you dont see coming. And it isnt like Joshua can just walk through his punches, Moore still has a respectable 60% ko ratio despite an incredibly long career and the record for most number of KO's. He has flattened men Joshua's size so we know it will hurt if it connects.

Speed:

Joshua is not fast even by heavyweight standards. However, he does make the most of his tool kit and tries to make his punches as accurate and textbook as he can. His footspeed is ok, but using ruiz as an opponent is hard to get a good read on it. Overall id say his speed is a 5-6/10 at best.

Moore wasnt a speed demon either, especially with his feet (primarily flat footed while slowly stalking his prey). But he was very economical and released sudden short bursts while waiting for an opening. He had good speed in combinations going from downstairs to upstairs or when landing a counter. About a 7/10 at his sharpest. Neither guy is going to amaze the other.

Defense:

Joshua's defense is as basic as they come. He simply raises a basic upright European guard or ties up. He has no true concept of blocking an incoming combination or parrying. He lacks head movement or upper body movement. The one thing he does decently is lateral movement and doesn't engage when he knows he's hurt. Even when he ries up, his defense is leaky and he gets nailed, almost expecting a "silent agreement" or the ref to step in instead of wrestling or punching his way out (as seen in the ruiz rematch, he got clipped with powerful hooks as he relaxed thinking he was safe tying up).

Moore on the other hand has a very tight defense. The infamous cross arm block presents an interesting challenge here because its so good against basic straight punches and that's all Joshua has other than a powerful uppercut (which would be hard to land on such a small fighter with a tight guard). Moore could get careless at times and leave openings while looking to land a counter however. And when backed against the ropes, lots of volume can break down his guard (as seen against marciano but he was far past his best).

Chin/recovery:

Honestly neither guy is particularly durable. It might seem unfair to rate Joshua's higher since he had less than 30 fights and Moore had over 200 and continued fighting past his prime, but Joshua did survive vicious shots from heavy hitters like whyte and wladmir. Ruiz needed several knockdowns to get the stoppage. And these men were all well over 6 feet and 230+ meaning they got a lot more weight in their shots.

Joshua's recovery is worse than his chin (again, misconception that they're the same). His chin is decent at Maybe a 7.5/10 while his recovery is maybe a 6. The wlad fight was sheer guts and willpower, had wlad pulled the trigger he might have won quite easily.

Archie isn't particularly durable no matter how you slice it. He had 7 ko losses and was down even in fights where he won. The worst of which was the 1st round loss to morrow. Charles also had him down for the count in 8. Both opponents were light heavyweights.

Whats noteworthy is that Moore recovers surprisingly well. Even in the 1st round ko losses he needed to be flattened 3 times (and he was 9 years younger). Charles, a sharp accurate hitter, also needed 2 knockdowns before he could get the ko. Even the prime relentless slugging marciano needed 9 rounds and 3 knockdowns to finally ko an old shopworn moore.

This video demonstrates Moore's incredibly recovery and will to win. It also shows his ability to make adjustments:

This content is protected

With that id rate Moore's chin a 6/10 and his recovery an 8/10. He got by due to his tight guard, cleverness, and ability to adjust.

Ring IQ:

No need to really elaborate on this one. Moore is in another universe.

Punch selection:

Joshua is primarily a straight puncher but he has a nasty uppercut. He doesn't go to the body vary often, and doesn't double up on his jab. A man his size should be popping the jab twice if not 3x. He also has an ok hook but it needs work. He cant fight on the inside to save his life (literally) and his outside game is decent but we've only seen it against the morbidly obese slow Ruiz. For now id say his best range is mid range where he can get the most leverage with his large muscular frame and powerful combinations.

Moore had a crisp jab and an entire elaborate punching system. He could fight at any range, box, slug, counter, swarm, you name it. This website breaks down Moore's intricate system:

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/6/...reverse-engineering-the-lock-history-analysis

The fight:

I think this would be a much more interesting fight than people are willing to admit. Joshua has size and strength but sorely lacks in both experience and stamina. The gap in skill and strategy is like night and day. On the other hand, Moore is not very durable and has to rely on his cageyness in addition to being much smaller with a short reach.

Basically, Moore cannot make a single mistake. He has to be on his guard from start to finish. The longer it goes, the worse for Joshua whose huge muscles would ironically sap his energy rapidly. If he tries to go for the ko early and fails, we just might have a repeat of the first Ruiz fight. Keyword here is "if". Joshua himself admits he gets frustrated by shorter fighters and indeed, his basic predictable limited punch selection and long arms would easily be neutralized and blocked/parried by the tight cross arm block as long as Moore maintains presence of mind.

It would be interesting to see Joshua deal with not only painful body shots, but also someone whose going downstairs and upstairs, punching up and changing angles/stances/and styles frequently.

6-7 times out of ten id say Joshua gets sorely embarrassed and outboxed, maybe even suffering a flash knock down walking into a sneaky counter, but ultimately Moore can't be on his toes with perfect defense every minute of evert round and goes down hard at some point. Moore would then have 2 choices: open up and risk getting KO'd or fighting a lame super defensive fight praying he won enough rounds to win a razor thin decision or get a moral victory hearing the final bell.

2 times out of 10 the sly veteran does enough damage to Joshua's body, making him miss, countering, and putting on a clinic to win a convincing decision over a wheezing gasping Joshua. Possible, but unlikely.

And of course a 1/10 punchers chance for Joshua to simply blast him out early (1-3 rounds). Moore was stopped by several men who were under 200 lbs so this is hardly a ridiculous scenario. He might be able to do so and startle the cerebral Moore who likes to fight at his pace taking the time to read and analyze his opponent before breaking them down.

I don't see the opposite happening (freak punchers chance for Moore) unless Joshua is out of shape or completely off guard and does something stupid like his habit of taunting with his tongue out.

 

I cant knock the klits,although u make some good points. Archie all timer,but name a top heavy he beat,good luck