Anthony Joshuas last win vs a top 10

Taking an average of the different independent ranking bodies is probably about as objective as we can be. TBRB especially is voted on by numerous boxing writers.

But if we are giving our own opinions weight, I think Chisora has been engaging in fixed fights for a while now, starting with Washington. So Wallin throwing a fight for some money doesn't mean much to me. But that's just my opinion

 

This is a great debate. A forum classic. Joshua's die hard fans quote rankings as if they aren't completely, entirely, and without exception based on money and politics. They even quote an obscure volunteer raking organization called "TBRB" which had Otto Wallin as the #5 ranked Heavyweight. Does that sound completely insane? That's because it is. I know that, you know that, the people constantly bringing it up know that, and yet they persist anyway.

The objective truth is that Otto Wallin's ranking was influenced by the fact that he was slated to fight the cash cow of the division. Why wouldn't it be? As many posters in this thread have pointed out, Otto was CLEARLY never a top 10 h2h Heavyweight. He has a win over Gassiev (???) and got dominated by a shot to oblivion 41 year old Derek Chisora at 34 years of age with almost no wear and tear. That is the entirety of his notable fights at HW.

When we are talking about a "top 10 heavyweight", we are talking about CLEAR, DEMONSTRATED ABILITY against guys up there in the rankings. Otto didn't do that and has proven that he doesn't belong, and never did. This is a sad debate between people who are knowledgeable about what actually occurs in the ring and fanboys who point point to organizations that have Jake Paul as a top 15 ranked fighter.

 

Quite easy to explain if you were following the division at the time.

Wallin was ranked at #8.
August 2023, Dillian Whyte is dropped from the Joshua fight on an alleged PED violation. He is dropped from the October rankings. Wallin moves up to #7
September 2023, Ruiz Jr gets dropped from rankings for being 12 months innactive with no fights on the horrizon, he was dropped from the October rankings. Wallin moves to #6
September 2023, Joyce loses for a second time to Zhang. Wallin moves up to #5 in the October rankings

October 2023 rankings:
Champion: Oleksandr Usyk
1. Tyson Fury
2. Deontay Wilder
3. Zhilei Zhang
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Otto Wallin
6. Filip Hrovic
7. Jared Anderson
8. Martin Bakole
9. Frank Sanchez
10. Joe Joyce

not so crazy really, when you take a step back and think about it

Wallin was "#5 challenger" (technically #6 HW) through circumstance. But he was top 10 on merit. The average rankings are evidence of that

 

This is what we're dealing with folks.

Also he thinks the Chisora-Wallin fight was fixed LOL

Otto Wallin doesn't even think he was top 5

 

The evidence points to Wallin being rated as a Top 10 contender in every independent ranking and 2 out of 4 alphabet body rankings (Top 15 in the third one). Your H2H opinion is just that, an opinion.

 

Here is a list of fighters who would have gladly fought AJ and who AJ avoided post Usyk.

Wilder
Joyce (pre Zhang)
Croatian
Parker
Zhang

It's irrelevant whether Wallin was listed as top 10 or not. AJ ducked the most dangerous competition for an easy run towards the Dubious title fight.

Franklin
Helenius (post Wilder KO, nearly retired)
Wallin
MMA fighter somewhere in there.

 

Time for some self-reflection. I thought it would be good to see how many threads I have actually started about AJ or Joshua. I genuinely don't know:

Since 2022, "Finkel" created a total of 2 threads: one positive, one negative
Since 2024, "MaccaveliMacc" created 6 threads
Since 2022, "LordLosh" created 20+ threads

Since 2022, "JoeyWill" created 20+ threads
Since 2022, "MarkusFlorez99" created 70+ threads
Since 2022, "Slyk" created 50+ threads: all negative

 

There is some truth in this, but at the same time there are some things to consider. I agree it is an easy route to a title fight, though he wasn't taking a route back to Dubois.

He was rebuilding, I'm sure we can both agree.

Helenius fight was a way to set-up the fight with Wilder. A mutual opponent. Remember, he had actually signed to fight Wilder. Wilder messed that up by losing to Parker.

Wallin and the MMA fighter, were also mutual opponents, this time of Fury. Remember it is Fury who is hiding away in retirement now.

But I agree, it was a soft rebuild toward a title fight. But it was toward Usyk, if he had beaten Dubois. He didn't. Dubois beat him up.

 

This is a huge and very serious allegation. What makes you think a man with double digit losses only started to care enough to pay off his opponents for wins in the twilight of his career against Gerald Washington of all opponents?

 

It's not really all that mind blowing. Chisora even with double digit losses makes a lot of money in the UK. But about Washington, you might recall Washington (Chisora's friend) was brought in for what was meant to Chisora's retirement fight/a testimonial bout---they were sending the old war horse off with a win. And that's exactly how it looked. Chisora looked completely shot and was falling over his own feet for much of the fight trying to wing in punches. Washington was clearly carrying Chisora to the finish line not throwing much of anything in anger at his old friend. It was a fixed fight. But nothing all that egregious in the grand scheme of things. The problem was in the post-fight Chisora clearly went off script and started talking about fighting on.

As for the Wallin fight, he was a last minute replacement for Big Baby Miller. Miller got forced out of the fight last minute. Yet, Chisora v Wallin, neither of whom was highly ranked with the IBF, all of a sudden are engaging in an IBF title eliminator? That in itself was very strange. Then Wallin seems to completely forget his skill set, and much like Washington before him, doesn't seem to be putting anything behind his punches.

Oh and then there was this:
RAS-OFF-PLATFORM-LOONEY-TOON-KD.jpg (1920×1080)

 

Joshua's last win against a genuine top 10 opponent on ability was Povetkin back in 2018.

Ruiz was not top 10 in the rematch; he didn't train for that fight and was the most obese HW title contestant (let alone titlist) in boxing history.

 

Helenius was also a late replacement on 7 days notice.

 

Damn, that's a big level of fanboyism.

 

Gary Cornish.