Antonio Tarver: If Manny Pacquiao Beats Errol Spence, He's The GOAT.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by JOKER, Jun 7, 2021.

  1. JOKER

    JOKER Margarito a G Full Member

    Dec 18, 2019

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  2. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Jul 21, 2009
    Floyd probably lies about his height too.

    Loma looks like a freaking leprechaun's young son with that tiny frame and crazy short T. Rexosaurus arms 65½'' reach of his but people tell me someone who has weighed in as high as 152 weighs the same as someone who is 138-139.

    I give all three of them credit for campaigning in divisions where they're facing much bigger heavier guys, but Manny's got the head, calves and wrists of a HW which enables him to generate the power to not only withstand the blows and hurt much bigger men but for a whole bunch of them to say he's the hardest puncher they've fought too.

    Floyd gives away a lot of weight but he has a long 72'' reach and he's rarely been at a reach disadvantage in his career where Loma usually always is and is often giving away a significant one (2-7.5'') in addition to giving away significant amounts of weight. Reach matters.
  3. ButeTheBeast

    ButeTheBeast Well-Known Member Full Member

    May 27, 2012
    Pacquiao's loss to Floyd means he will never be the GOAT.
    22JM likes this.
  4. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

    Apr 24, 2020
    Pac's had like three different careers dude. His career pre Welterweight, then his welterweight career that carried on when he dismantled Cotto all the way to the late 10s, and now him being the oldest WW champ in history and attempting to break his record again. I honestly fee like you focus on Pac losing early on his career too much dude. He was a literal teen when he lost to Torrecampo, does anyone give a **** that Arguello lost twice in his first ten matches? And I'm actually one of the few people with an unpopular opinion that you can make a case of using his loss against Singsurat against him cause it happened after he won his first title and people use the win against Sasakul to highlight his longevity and how he won a title so early. It's almost a case of having your cake and eating it too, still though a bit harsh to hold it that much against him.

    Harping on about the Horn loss is just being pedantic though. Horn is a fight most people had him winning and even if you want to use that against him it's not like it matters when Duran lost to Pat Lawlor lol. Duran's had a **** ton of losses and yes the win over SRL is great, but that's shifting the goal post when you keep mentioning that Pac had too many horrible losses to disqualify him as the goat. Not to mention this thread is about Pacquiao having a win that propels him to that level. And I really think you are overlooking how legendary a win over Spence would be dude. This would be 5x better than the Thurman win and would arguably be Pac's flatout best win if you look at all the circumstances. Spence is WAAAY bigger than Pac dude, is undefeated, and is a legitimate pound for pounder (Thurman wasn't on the p4p lists) meanwhile Pacquiao is over 42, has a million miles on his odometer, and hasn't been in the ring in 2 years. This is probably one of the few times Pacquiao was a legitimate underdog. He wasn't an underdog against Thurman, Cotto, etc. He was against Mayweather, De La Hoya, Barrera, etc and I honestly don't see Pacquiao not being an underdog. The odds will even out but Spence will still be the favorite. Also obviously Pac wants money, he's trying to run for President, but you're acting like Pacquiao is gonna pull a Mikey and just show up for the paycheck and go through the motions and try to survive. If he does do that or it's obvious he's beyond shot and just wanted money then I'd gladly eat crow and you'd have a point, but it's clear that he's doing this for his legacy way more than for the cash. He could have easily just fought Mikey for a decent payday then had a fight in the Philippines against someone like Khan. But no, it's clear he's going to at least try to replicate his Thurman performance. Even if he loses, which I honestly think he will, he'll at least try to put a good account of himself.

    Also the Hopkins argument doesn't apply here. Pacquiao has more than longevity dude whereas that's Hopkins' defining claim to being an ATG. Yes he has good wins, but Hopkins beating father time is why people regard him so highly. Are you forgetting Pacquiao has risen a billion weight classes and it's just NOW that people are realizing hey wait Pacquiao is actually still fighting and breaking records at this point. Just to make it clear I don't think if Pac wins against Spence that makes him goat, but if he does then you can't say Pac has too many losses and it disqualifies him from being ranked super high in the atg rankings when that also applies to Duran and a win over Spence would be one of the best wins in the sport hands down.
    Southers, maac and JOKER like this.
  5. SquaredCircle

    SquaredCircle Active Member Full Member

    Oct 22, 2015
    He'd still rank a hell of a lot lower than Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, Langford, and Charles, among others. To be the greatest, I think you need to establish yourself as superior to other top-tier greats or at least have a win over one. The two best fighters Pacquiao fought were Mayweather and Marquez; I have him going 1-4 against them. Doesn't mean he's not high in the ATG rankings, but it puts a ceiling on him that falls below GOAT status.

    I can't rank somebody whose best wins are Morales, Marquez, Barrera, Cotto, etc. over somebody whose best wins are Burley, Moore, Louis, Bivins, Marshall, Walcott, and Maxim, for instance. Or a guy who beat Tunney, Walker, Loughran, Rosenbloom, the Gibbons brothers, Flowers.

    No hate either. He's one of my favorites and had a totally unique and special career that will be remembered long after he's gone.
  6. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

    Sep 1, 2019
    SRR couldn’t conquer the middleweights without dropping the title every 5 minutes. ATG but he was bearable as we know
  7. Pimp C

    Pimp C F 12 & Goofies Stay Dangerous Full Member

    Jun 23, 2005
    What does that make Pac then? Who was more beatable?
  8. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

    Sep 1, 2019
    Pac didn’t drop his belt in any division 5 times. At middle Ray Robinson was beatable, welters a different story
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    Prime Robinson lost once at middleweight, after four fights or something in as many countries over a two week period, to a guy he'd beat two months later. Plus, Turpin is probably better than anyone Pacquiao ever beat. The other losses at MW all happened after his first retirement.
    cslb likes this.
  10. UniversalPart

    UniversalPart Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 1, 2010
    I was 10 years old when Pac turned professional.

    I am now in my mid 30s, married with 3 children, greying and thinning hair and feeling old asf sometimes.

    Yet Pac Man is still going strong.
    Somali Sanil likes this.
  11. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

    Sep 1, 2019
    No, Turpin wasn’t better than anyone Pac ever beat, that’s not accurate or true at all. Good fighter, very strong an awkward but he didn’t dominate middle or stand out from the pack
  12. YCGS

    YCGS Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 13, 2013
    GOAT is an opinion, not a fact. If you think Fernando Vargas is the GOAT, then guess what...he is the GOAT. Not many will agree with you but oh well.
  13. JL Fighter

    JL Fighter Well-Known Member Full Member

    Mar 24, 2009
    The fact that Pac ducked Humberto Soto and Paulie means he is a loser.
  14. Alo2006

    Alo2006 R.I.P Sean Taylor Full Member

    Jun 28, 2006
    Spence going to man handle Pac. The fight going to be interesting and close first 4 rounds. After that, Spence going to go from boxing to dog walking Pac beating that body up until his corner stop the fight. Torch will be passed to Spence!
  15. JOKER

    JOKER Margarito a G Full Member

    Dec 18, 2019
    Pac's fight isn't against Spence — it's against Father Time. If Pac isn't completely shot from the 2 year lay off, he'll be right there slugging it out w/ Spence and winning the exchanges.