Any 175 Pounder You Would Make Favourite Over Charles?

Charles weighed 168 Lbs. for that fight and was not in his prime yet. Charles had recently moved up from MW after a fight with MW World Champ Tony Zale fell thru, Charles was the #1 contender. Charles was set to enter the Army and was trying to squeeze as many fights in as he could to make some money for his family. He lost to Jimmy Bivins, L10, and then two months later while fighting with an injured hip, he lost to Lloyd Marshall, LKOby8.

Two wins are on his pro record during the time he was in the Army but they were little more than exhibitions.

Charles came back in 1946 and was a true LHW. He was filled out... bigger and stronger than he had ever been and 24 years old. He was already 33-4-1 (16) but he had yet to peak. He had already beat Hall of Famers Teddy Yarosz W10, Anton Christoforidis KO3, Charley W10 x2, and Joey Maxim W10 x2. He had also beat Marty Simmons W10 and Jose Basora KO5 among others. He had lost to Hall of Famers Ken Overlin L10 (he also had a draw with Overlin, D10), Jimmy Bivins L10, and Lloyd Marshall LKOby8. He also had a questionable loss to Kid Tunero, LSD10.

From February 1946 - May 1951 he went 39-1 (24) overall and 9-0 (5) in HW World title fights. First he went 15-0 (10). The only loss was a questionable decision to Elmer Ray, LSD10. After Ray he went 7-0 (5) then he fought Sam Baroudi, KO10. Baroudi died from injuries sustained in that fight. His KO% had increased since his comeback in 1946 but after Baroudi it went down a bit (understandably). After Baroudi he went 16-0 (8KOs) prior to his first loss to Jersey Joe Walcott, LKOby7. During this 40 fight stretch he beat Hall of Famers:

Archie Moore W10, W10, and KO8. Charles went 3-0 (1) vs. Moore.

LLOYD MARSHALL KO6 AND KO2. Charles went 2-1 (2) vs. Marshall.

JIMMY BIVINS W10, KO4, W10, and W10... only Lem Franklin (who outweighed Bivins by 28 Lbs.), Archie Moore, and Ezzard Charles were able to stop Bivins in 112 pro fights. Bivins went the distance with a faded Joe Louis. Charles went 4-1 (1) vs. Bivins.

Joey Maxim W15, W15, and W12. Charles went 5-0 vs. Maxim.

Jersey Joe Walcott W15 and W15

Gus Lesnevich KO7

Joe Louis W15

He also avenged his loss to Elmer Ray, KO9.

72-5-1 (40) overall, 9-0 (5) in World title fights, and 22-3-1 (6) VS. HALL OF FAMERS prior to losing the HW title to Walcott. He should have had World title fights at MW and LHW as well. At any point during his reign as HW Champ he could have made the LHW limit of 175 Lbs. He weighed 178 - 186 during his reign. He weighed 192 1/2 Lbs. for his rematch vs. Rocky Marciano, his 99th pro fight.

 

yes, good pick

 

Yes, I'm aware of the career of Ezzard Charles.

The question is who would you favor over Charles at light heavyweight. And I gave some names and I why I thought they'd win.

Charles wasn't unbeatable at light heavyweight. And there were guys I think could've beaten him. Only a couple, but they are there.

 

I wouldn't favor anyone but I'm not saying that he couldn't have been upset by someone. To bring up that he was stopped by a guy who weighed in at 165... I was just pointing out that Charles weighed just 168 for that fight and he improved a great deal after this fight. He avenged that loss twice.

 

Due to the significant personnel changes here over the last 8 years or so Charles now seems to be significantly underrated in here. He won our all time ranking poll at 175 by streets. At 175 there's every chance he was the best that ever lived and at his peak you could argue he was pretty much as good as any fighter who lived. Usually makes most experts Top 5 P4P list, or used to.

 

Agreed. Charles is one of the greatest of all time.

 

This isn't a thread about greatness it's about h2h.

 

Rest assured i am primarily talking H2H while expanding for emphasis. No disrespect but Saad was mentioned for goodness sakes. Charles would be at risk of killing him. Charles was as close to being a perfect fighting machine when peak at 175 as just about anyone ever. His win list is insane. It's a shame there isn't more film of him at his peak weight as many do not realise just how explosive and powerful he could be.

 

I pick Spinks to beat him.
Roy Jones second.

 

All greats by definition have been in fights against those less great. Almost all greats have succumbed to a style against a less great opponent.

Would it be the biggest upset ever if Saad beats him? Of course not. However I do pick Charles to school him.

 

I know people like to bring up Michael Moorer's name in these discussions, but who did he beat at LHW? Moorer was as big as a LHW could be while still being tall with a long reach. 6'2" with a 78" reach and solid as a rock at 175. He was way above 175 come fight time. He was a huge puncher. He was a right hander who fought left handed. He beat Leslie Stewart and Frankie Swindell. I doubt he'd beat Charles.

 

Once he hit his straps in 46 Charles hammered numerous better fighters than Saad and never lost to anyone on his level. He was also beating bigger fighters while still weighing 175.

Saad was great to watch, and a very good fighter. He beat some good men. He beat most of them by wearing them down after taking their best shots, often for prolonged periods. He has no place in this thread however per the title, which you reminded us of.

 

Here's Ezzard Charles seven years and 44 fights into his pro career getting dropped 50 seconds into the fight by Lloyd Marshall - who was bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56fBd7nfmUY

Marshall held his hands at his side. He led with his head. He was the 1950s version of Merqui Sosa. He primarily threw sweeping hooks and uppercuts, and Marshall had the "perfect fighting machine" on the deck here 55 seconds into the opening round (after dropping Charles a half dozen times and stopping Charles in their first fight).

Don't overhype Charles. He was a human being like everyone else.

Some of the best light heavyweights, especially those who were busy, aggressive and had impressive power, were going to give Charles hell.

Charles was an excellent fighter. But he wasn't unbeatable. Not at heavy. Not at light heavy.

If Lloyd Marshall alone could knock Charles down nine times in two fights and stop him once, Charles wasn't "the perfect fighting machine."

 

I agree. I think that a lot of this is hindsight bias from his success at heavyweight. He was formidable at light heavy but not quite the world beater that people make him out to be, imo. Certainly has a puncher's chance against Charles though.