Any chance of a new GOAT emerging in any category?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by ikrasevic, Dec 3, 2023.



  1. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic For the honorable cross and the golden freedom Full Member

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    The question is serious. Who's close to that? Any chance? The last example is (MAYBE) Usyk.
    Has the P4P "ideology" reduced the possibility of a GOAT appearing in the minor categories? Because if Naoya Inoue had stayed in the light fly category for the rest of his career, he would certainly have become the GOAT, etc. etc.
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Estrada at SFLW could well be considered the goat already tbh.

    Inoue maybe at SBW if he stays there.

    Usyk at CW is already a debate.

    Canelo at SMW will be forever debated.

    LWW is a waste land now and historically so that's not beyond reason.

    The 4 people vying for belts at LW (Loma, Shakur, Kambosos and Davis) all seem set to remain at the weight for a while now, but it would take something special there.

    MW potentially if the new Kazakh can get big fights early and reign terror for a decade.
     
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  3. Boxing2019

    Boxing2019 If you want peace, prepare war. Full Member

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    No, theres not the competition there was in any category in the last century.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
  4. UniversalPart

    UniversalPart Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    If Beterbiev retires undefeated and his record includes Bivol I would make him an ATG at 175lbs.

    If he retires with a perfect 100% KO rate that just shoots him up the rankings even more but his record will be filled with quality rather than quantity and he's probably got 4 fights left in him max.

    Smith
    Bivol
    Benavidez
    Maybe a move upto CW to snatch a belt there (Billam Smith?)
     
  5. GGGunbeatable

    GGGunbeatable Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Canelo is the only active fighter who could be the GOAT. Look what he achieved at his age and retirement won't come soon. He beat most fighters in several weight classes. Modern day Pacquiao.
     
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  6. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Active Member Full Member

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    Nah. P4P, you've got guys like Robinson and Armstrong that have something like 50 wins over ranked men in their careers, which is so ludicrous by modern standards, that most here probably won't believe it unless they research it themselves. Most fighters today don't even have that many fights. Other guys like Greb have like 30 wins over Hall of Famers. The top P4P GOAT canditates were monsters.

    As for GOAT in respective divisions, then I'd say Usyk has cemented himself as the GOAT Cruiserweight. Maybe Estrada is the GOAT at 115 too. The other divisions are too thin historically, with half of the original 8 divisions being wastelands outright.
     
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  7. Rollin

    Rollin Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't think there is even a possible quality of opposition for Beterbiev to challenge as of now, Bivol aside.

    175 is ridiculous historically. Ridiculous.
     
  8. UniversalPart

    UniversalPart Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    All he can do is do his best to unify and keep splattering everyone.

    History will be the judge.
     
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  9. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic For the honorable cross and the golden freedom Full Member

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  10. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    There has been mention of Juan Francisco Estrada being the GOAT at 115. That doesn't seem likely. JFE is only 5-1 in 115lb title fights, he will soon be 34 years old and he hasn't fought in a year. He does not have nearly enough time left to challenge Khaosai Galaxy as the junior bantamweight top dog. Galaxy went 20-0-0 including 17 knockouts in world title fights at the weight. I believe the Thai great to be undisputed GOAT at 115.
     
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  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    No. Absolutely not in my opinion. He'd still be well behind Ezzard, Archie, and Spinks.

    But it would almost certainly place him in the discussion for being somewhere inside or around the Top 10.
     
  12. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Active Member Full Member

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    I doubt he would. Archie Moore has multiple wins over Jimmy Bivins, Lloyd Marshall, Harold Johnson, and Joey Maxim. The former 3 are just straight up greater than Beterbiev and Bivol themselves, and are genuine all time P4P greats. Even Maxim is superior to anyone today aside from maybe Bivol and Beterbiev themselves. Maxim's winning resume could easily be argued to be better than both Bivol's and Beterbiev's, but he suffered some bad losses. Moore also made a 10 defenses reign at the poundage in 9 years against the best around, the greatest title reign in the division's history, mostly in his 40's.

    Ezzard Charles beat Moore 3-0. He also beat 3 of the 4 guys mentioned above that Moore had also beaten. That says it all. Harry Greb also has the deepest resume at the poundage, with wins over Tunney, Norfolk, Gibbons, Loughran, Dillon, Levinsky, Miske, Delaney, Slattery and Rosenbloom, a good chunk of them were beaten multiple times. All of them are better than anyone Bivol and Beterbiev fought. Then there's guys like Tommy Loughran, who beat Mickey Walker, Young Stribling, Jimmy Slattery, Jimmy Delaney, and even managed to get a win over a declining Harry Greb.

    Beterbiev is a talented fighter, but beating your biggest rival and retiring undefeated just isn't enough to be considered the GOAT when the modern division lacks both ATG quality and depth.
     
  13. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Great post as always.

    For what it's worth, here is the 175 survey results from the Classic forum a few years back.

    This content is protected
     
  14. Dangerwood84

    Dangerwood84 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Modern day Pacquiao FFS....lol! They may have shared a plate of mexican beef in their day but that's about it......sheeesh!
     
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  15. NoChin

    NoChin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    million to one shot kid