Any chance Schmeling took a dive

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Malik Shabazz, Dec 9, 2021.


  1. Malik Shabazz

    Malik Shabazz Member banned Full Member

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    Wasnt it only two years prior that Schmelling had taken Louis to task in a rout?

    Was schmeling just completely shot by the rematch?

    Wasnt Hitler still trying to stay on the good side of the US in the 1930s? Not sure he was as hell bent in proving racial superiority as historians claim.

    In any event the only other real example I can think to compare it to would be Wilder vs Stivern
     
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  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Anything is possible but I have my doubts. Schmeling faced a lot of humiliation back home for losing to Louis and I’m sure he knew that would happen in the event of a loss.
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I doubt that Hitler ordered Schmeling to throw the fight in order to improve relations with the US, for a lot of reasons. Including:

    * Hitler had, in fact, already staged the 1936 Berlin Olympics as an event to "prove German racial superiority." So the Nazi regime had already showed an interest in winning, not losing, major international sporting events.

    * Schmeling beating Louis probably would not have any significant effect on German/American political relations. The kinds of things that mattered were American isolationism and the preexisting Anglo sympathies in the US. Neither of these would change if Schmeling won.

    * Besides, Hitler had contempt for American fighting abilities, which is one of the reasons he went out of his way to declare war on the US when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

    * To the extent that it mattered at all, Louis beating Schmeling actually emboldened the US. So if Hitler wanted to get an advantage with this fight, throwing it wouldn't have been a very good plan.

    * Schmeling was a propaganda asset to the regime. (I think I remember reading that the German broadcast actually cut off when it became clear Schmeling was losing, although that might be a Sugarism.) Hitler would be unlikely to deliberately humiliate his own country's champion in a sport that is very nationalistically charged. Especially considering that Hitler's own country was ultranationalist and prided itself on excelling in manly sports like boxing.

    EDIT: That said, it is an interesting idea that shows out of the box thinking, so I gave you a "like." We can use more interesting questions, even if they don't always pan out.
     
  4. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fighters don't typically take dives except for money. And they don't take dives where all their money gets driven up in medical bill costs.

    Schmeling wasn't shot either. Louis was just that good, and he had learned his lesson.

    Schmeling, thought exploited by Hitler as a sign of the German nation/ Nazi regime, had no political link to Nazi Germany. Historical sources say he was non-compliant with Hitler's ideas.
     
  5. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No way, he simply got caught early by one of the greatest heavyweights ever.
     
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  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Reports, exaggerated or not, had Max in hospital for 10 days after the fight with several vertebrae cracked from Louis’ punches.

    It was also reported that Louis wasn’t allowed to visit and Team Max complained of fouling, viz: kidney shot. Of course this was due to Max turning his back.

    I checked Wikipedia and Joe apparently threw 41 punches, 31 of which landed solidly in just over 2 minutes.

    Because of the reported damage to Max in such a short time (ala Dempsey v Willard) some felt Joe might’ve loaded his gloves.

    Prior to fighting Louis, apparently Galento and his team tried to cast aspersions on Joe re loaded gloves, likely based on the Schmeling fight.

    In the viewing, the power of Joe’s punches and the toll exacted is unmistakable imo. Max can also been seen, mouth open, groaning in obvious pain as Louis crashes shots into his body. Joe focused all that he was and could be into a mere 2 minutes and 4 seconds. Devastating.
     
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Schmeling admitted to being a little taken back by the incredible atmosphere that night. The pressure was huge. He looked over at Louis and Joe looked totally calm and unaffected which Max felt unsettling.

    Although He had beat Louis last time, like Spinks versus Tyson, Max had not been as active as Louis had..I think Joe had 3 times as many fights against better opposition since they last fought. Max was supposed to fight Braddock but the fight was cancelled. The last good opponent he fought was Louis. I think that goes a long way toward being an advantage in a show down like that.

    Louis was totally driven that night. He couldn’t have been better.

    Max never got going.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Almost none I would say.

    Schmeling sustained horrific injuries, and faced punishment and disfavor for his showing.
     
  9. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Don’t think so, he just looked like a man who was beat before he started.
     
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  10. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  11. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    An idea others have put forward is that Nax took a dive because he didn't want to be used by the Nazis as a symbol.

    I think that's more plausible than the version in the OP. But either way I see no reason to think it actually was a fix.

    Fury had a way easier time with Wilder in their second fight, compared with their first or third. It happens.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Joe never forgot the terrible beating Max gave him. He jumped on Schmeling before he could do anything. It paid off.

    No way Max threw that fight. Joe was just too much for anyone in that mood.
     
  13. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Zero chance.
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    If it was a fix, someone had forgotten to tell Louis.
     
  15. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Nah. No fix. Louis was firing on all cylinders and Max was a little out of sorts. The result was a thrashing.
     
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