Any chance Schmeling took a dive

He must have agreed or decided to be decimated and have his vertebrae broken.

 

No.

Almost the nuttiest conspiracy theory yet. (That the Titanic sinking was faked for an insurance scam is nuttier)

Hitler would have wanted a symbol of Ayran superiority to be beaten badly by a black American? Come on.

As for doubting Hitler's commitment to racism, how much proof do you need?

 

If you're going to cook up anything this wildly conjectural, you had better at least have a compelling foundation of reasonable doubt to be questioning such a thing. Evident in the OP is that you don't.

 

Doubtful.
The 1st fight was more of Louis reading his own press
and believing in his own invincibility. Not putting the
time in to train properly and study his foe.
2nd fight was Louis properly trained and motivated.
If Schmeling was in his prime the 2nd fight. It
wouldn't have made much of a difference.
He still gets destroyed.

 

Schmeling faced ridicule at home after the fight, and at that time it really wasn't a good idea to **** off the Nazis.

Second worst HW title destruction after Dempsey-Willard.

 

So, you may need to dig into its bibliography a bit, but a Google Books search reveals a book written by Lewis Erenberg, a professor of history, published by Oxford University Press. It contains an entire chapter about the Nazi German reaction to Schmeling's earlier victory in 1936. I'm sure it contains later reactions to their second fight too, although I don't know which chapters it would be in.

Skimming the chapter, it has multiple quotes from German sources, including (one of) the Nazi propaganda organs, Volkischer Beobachter, playing up the racial dimensions of the 1936 fight, and Schmeling's role as a representative of his nation. See chapter 3.

 

It was more than just representative; that's just one part of it. The racial dimensions were the other part. The Nazi regime apparently realized the implications as much as the American press did. Feel free to read it; it looks like it was written to address your question.

 

Interesting topic. just cannot see a man of his character taking a dive. And..... would anyone take that beating for a fix? Christ. Joe was on a mission

 

No way in the hell.

 

in addition to Louis improving, i think that the stress might have just gotten to schmeling a lot more than it did Louis. that was the biggest fight in history to that point and possibly still reigns as the biggest fight in history.

and since it was such a famous and big fight, and because the nazi regime has been so examined and poured over by historians, i think any evidence of a fix would have been uncovered.

 

Ok this, can you please provide any links that Schmelling was a symbol of superiority to his people? I mean like from their own sources.

I know the US media portrayed him that way, but the US media is also historically unscrupulous and prints bold faced lies on a regular basis.

Now if you have a contemporary German publication that proclaims Schmellings racial superiority, I would hold that in much higher regard then anything you read from Nat Fleischer or Bert Sugar[/QUOTE]

When Schmelling beat Louis, he was flown back to Germany in Hindenburg to a hero’s welcome, his wife received letters of congratulations and flower for Adolf himself. I mean the guy was flown back in the Germans most advanced technology of the era and given adulation from the German people.

Whether it was quite built up in Germany the way it was in America for the rematch at that time is disputable, but the guy was held in massive esteem in his country. Obviously regardless of Max’s beliefs which are ambiguous to say the least, he would have been seen as somewhat as a national hero going in to that fight. So whether to the German people he was thought as the perfect Ayran idol is debatable and redundant, because he was seen as an icon at the least and it would be a public embarrassment for the Nazi party when he was defeated as they were the one flogging the superior race card. Whether it was seen as the embarrassment the US media made out is probably over exaggerated, but it would have been seen as a black mark at the least.

Look at the 1936 olympics where 5 boxers from Germany won Olympic gold
Medals, 2 held no proven ties to the Nazi party, but there were considered hero’s, regardless of their beliefs they would have been used as examples of the dominance of the genes and exploited in the propaganda machine.

There would have been no dive if you read some of the good biographies on Max he seemed a guy and even for pride I couldn’t see him doing it. The fact that it was never even hinted at over the years, suggests the answer is no.

 

This is true. I watched a documentary in which Louis stated even after winning the championship he didn't feel like he was the real champion because he hadn't avenged his loss.

That's why he was able to hold the championship so long. He held himself to a high standard despite being a young man surrounded by thousands of dollars, public praise, and women. He took the title deadly serious and wasn't like some boxers who take a loss and just shrug saying they had an off night and show no urgency to avenge it.

As for Max throwing the fight...if he did, he probably should have told Louis before getting the absolute dog crap beaten out of him. Nobody stands there taking that kind of punishment when they can simply lay down after a few convincing hard shots. He clearly wanted to try to win and was in decent shape.

 

Ok this, can you please provide any links that Schmelling was a symbol of superiority to his people? I mean like from their own sources.

I know the US media portrayed him that way, but the US media is also historically unscrupulous and prints bold faced lies on a regular basis.

Now if you have a contemporary German publication that proclaims Schmellings racial superiority, I would hold that in much higher regard then anything you read from Nat Fleischer or Bert Sugar[/QUOTE]



I don't know about a contemporary German source. That takes a lot of research impossible for an old man living out west in an American small town.

But try Max Schmeling's autobiography, chapter 15, pages 129 to 141.

Schmeling describes being immediately taken, when he arrived back in Germany after the first Louis fight, to a meeting with Hitler and other Nazi bigwigs, including Goebbels. There was quickly a discussion of the film with Hitler himself deciding on the spot that all of Germany would have to see the unedited film.

Besides everything else, Schmeling is soon offered the title of "Ehrensturmfuhrer" (Honorary Commander in the SA). It takes some deft diplomacy on his part to avoid this "honor" which he worried would deprive him of any chance of fighting for the title in the USA.

Schmeling sums up the situation:

"When I returned to Germany after the Louis fight, I saw the bout characterized in headlines and newspaper cartoons as a 'Battle of the Races,' and my victory had been turned into a 'German victory.'"

"I was a young man whose sole thought was to get a title shot. I tried to convince Hitler of the merits of my Jewish manager and I wanted to convince the Americans of my right to a title bout. Both attempts were equally naive."

both quotes from Max Schmeling, An Autobiography, page 140.