Any idea what Tommy Ryan was doing fighting Ed Martin 4 years after his retirement?

And your sources recognize his claim to middleweight championship for what period of time? Say, wiki just claims he was a middleweight champ without exact dates.

 

Most of contemporary (late 1890s-early 1900s) sporting writers I've read referred to Tommy Ryan as the welterweight champion, not the middleweight one. He had a claim to it, but McCoy's claim seemed more valid to me.

Here's what Chicago Inter Ocean wrote before their May 1900 bout, for example, which was scheduled at 158 pounds, weigh-in at 6 P.M. I think this was penned by Lou Houseman:
"No battle that has taken place in Chicago of late years has awakened one-half the interest that this meeting between the two claimants of the middle-weight championship has excited".

George Siler preferred not to talk about any championships in his write-ups about that bout. Neither did Macon McCormick, Harry McEnerny, Otto Floto, Willie Green, and many others.

I recall just one writer, Sandy Griswold of Omaha World-Herald, who thoughtthe same way you do, in his pre-fight write up:
"Of recent years McCoy has been fighting all the best ones in the heavyweight class, while Tommy Ryan has been sticking closely to the middleweight division and is very properly, in the opinion of the majority of students, entitled to the championship laurels pertaining to that class."

 

Seems to me that after 1898 McCoy was seldom mentioned as middleweight champion while up to 1903 Ryan was generally getting that accolade.

 

This is slightly off topic, but I am sure i read an article around about 1914 or 1915 when Bob Fitzsimmons was suing the NYAC ,that the NYAC acknowledged and admitted that he was still recognised as the NYAC World Middleweight champion.

Tommy Ryan is an interesting character. His career very closely mirrors and maybe even slightly surpasses that of Sugar Ray Robinson in some respects.

 

Matt, like I said, what I read was mostly referring to Ryan as welterweight champion, he was universally recognized as one. At middleweight he was considered only one of multiple aspirants for the championship. The problem with that logic that McCoy had abandoned the division to fight at heavyweight is that a lot of other claimants at different weights moved up and down too.

 

see below a few sample snippets, there are literally hundreds of mentions of Ryan as champion middleweight-in fairness some too of Gardiner, Fitz, O'Brien, Root and to a lesser extent McCoy- in the later years-but Ryan seems to carry the most volume and credence.
Norwalk Daily ReflectorWednesday, February 4, 1903, Norwalk, Ohio;
" Tommy Ryan, middleweight champion of the world, will defend his title against “Cyclone” Kelly, of San Francisco"
Indianapolis SunTuesday, November 27, 1900, Indianapolis, Indiana

CHICAGO, Nov. 27.—Tommy ' Ryan, middleweight champion, will meet Kid Carter, Brooklyn, at Tattersalls', Tuesday night.
Norwalk Daily ReflectorWednesday, November 26, 1902, Norwalk, Ohio

"November 26.—Tomorrow night is the time set for the fight between Tommy Ryan, the middleweight champion, and “Philadelphia Jack” O’Brien. "
Atlanta ConstitutionSunday, December 1, 1901, Atlanta, Georgia

"to give up training for the Moffat flght In San Francisco account ot give This testimonial, for what the Belt has done for me truly yours, am sure will do for TOMMY RYAN, Champion Middleweight of the World."

 

There are a lot more up to say 1900, where it wasn't mentioned at all, or he was called an aspirant for the championship honors at middleweight, one out of many. When you are reading about Fitz, Corbett or Jeffries, it is almost always mentioned that they were champions. You want to go through Ryan's fights, one by one, from early 1898 or when his supposed lineage had begun, whether he is called middleweight champion or not?

 

I'll have a look, time permitting. I have no dog in this fight but from 1898 on, Ryan gets more mentions as the middleweight champion than perhaps all the rest put together. Clean lineage, I don't think so but a lot of recognition. Incidentally not so much as "World" champion, have you noticed that even Corbett and Fitz were not that often given the World champion tag?

 

1898-02-25 San Francisco Chronicle (page 8)
"Ryan is generally considered the champion welter-weight of the world, though he has never met Joe Walcott."

1898-02-25 The San Francisco Call (page 11)
"Eastern sporting men who had seen Tommy Ryan polish off in good style some of the first-class welter-weights of the country contend that he will make short work of George Green this evening at Woodward's Pavilion."

1898-02-26 San Francisco Chronicle (page 16)
no mention of weights

1898-02-26 The San Francisco Call (page 7)
"Both appeared about the same weight, 150 to 155 pounds."
no reference to any championship


1898-06-13 New York Evening Journal (page 6)
"Of all the 'welters' Tommy Ryan is the best punisher, the most successful and the cleverest."

1898-06-14 New York Evening Journal (page 6)
"It was announced as a welter-weight affair, but as West confessed to 152 pounds and looked 172, it will hardly stand. Ryan looked the weight he gave, 142, and it is doubtful if he was ever more fit in his life."
"In the next it was different. The real Ryan, the champion welterweight, appeared."

1898-06-14 New York Sun (page 8)
"Before they shook hands West said he weighed 152 pounds and Ryan stated that he was not over 146. They were both heavier than these figures, however. It was announced that the fight would be for the welterweight championship of the world."

1898-06-14 New-York Tribune (page 6)
"The principal bout of the night was a twenty-round one between 'Tommy' Ryan, of Syracuse, and 'Tommy' West, of Boston, two of the cleverest welter-weight boxers in the country. Ryan weighed in at 146 pounds and West at 152."

1898-06-14 The New York Times (page 5)
"between Thomas Ryan of Syracuse and Thomas West of this city for the welter-weight championship."


...to be continued

 

Syracuse Standard October 26, 1898;
"Tommy Ryan, the Middleweight Champion, Anxious for a Go at His a Old Rival.
Tommy Ryan arrived in Syracuse yesterday afternoon looking not much the worse after his successful 20 round encounter with Jack Bonner in New York."

...but as I thrall through I see McCoy generally accepted-alongside Fitz- as the champion pre-1900 and Ryan after that. But their is no consensus.

 

Well, I guess we agree then.

 

Sure beats hours of copying, pasting and editing!!