Any Middleweights you'd favor over Sam Langford?

Well I rate him as a certain all time great because of his achievements his record is very impressive and from I have seen of him he would have beaten a lot of all time greats. Yes he had a good defense, he was also very quick and incredibly strong this is also very well documented, best fighter Australia ever produced... maybe but Young Griffo's record is a lot longer and better but then again his record and resume is maybe top 5 in history. Darcy's skills are massively underrated by many, he was as tough as anyone, ever, a record of 52 - 4 with him never being dropped by age 20 is brilliant.

 

Nothing have posted even remotely refutes anything ive said. "Darcy repudiated his manager and a signed contract to fight Gibbons because it was a ND a no title was on the line"?? Of course no title was on the line neither Darcy nor Gibbons were champions. ND fights were rule not the exception when Darcy came to the USA. HE CAME HERE. You dont get to dictate terms. He was a big fish in a small pond in oz and thought he was going to come here and get the same preferential treatment here that he did there. Sorry, doesnt work like that. Instead of fighting Gibbons and proving he was better (which was no given) he opted out of a massive purse and fired his manager. Who did he want to fight instead? The same champion you want to pretend wasnt a champion. Why? Because McCoy was a champion and everyone including Darcy knew it. Otherwise why chase a fight with him? You may not like that guys like McCall, and Douglas, and Braddock, and McCoy become champions but they do. Your twisted little revisionist lineage doesnt change that. Darcy was never a champion, neither was Jeff Smith, nor McGoorty, and at best Dave Smith was a claimant whose claim lasted all of four months at best and reverted back to Papke on a ko loss Yrs before Darcy even got his feet wet and even Smiths claim was as weak as it gets given the circumstances of of the fight and stipulations.

 

Stay away then, please. I mean that in the kindest possible way. :good
Sometimes I feel a bit too addicted to this place, but ... ffs man, do yourself a favour.

 

If you think Al McCoy was a champion instead of the ridiculous joke and bum that he was then you are a charlatan. You are the one being revisionist, you are trying to deny facts and all you are doing is. I have told you I am sick and won't ever get fully well again and therefore the 3000 to 6000 word essay I need to write just to show how wrong and biased you are is too much to ask of my time and as someone who has himself lost a family member to cancer I would expect you to understand. There have been several times in middleweight history when there have been two different titles like in the 30's. The other simple rule is that a champion who is beat in a title fight loses his title but because McCoy is american it seems its ok... you have always had double standards. The fact is that you are arrogant, smug and often wrong and you really come off as a nasty piece of work... Your comment about Monzon raping Winnie O'Sullivan some time ago shows you have no class at all and you have poisoned this forum with your twisting of facts..... it is simply a waste of time talking to you as you refuse to ever even consider you may not always be right. Why you want to simply write Darcy off as a bum is simply beyond my understanding and the understanding of many other fans of Darcy. I bet you think Young Griffo a bum too...... by the way, Joe Jeanette would wipe the floor with Greb 5 fights out of five.

 

As for Braddock winning the title,,, I think that was great, good on him, same goes for Douglas, I still love watching him destroy tyson. BUT McCoy's claim to the title was a load of BS, he was no champion but I respect the fact that he was a brave gutsy fellow but a fight with Darcy or Gibbons would have seen McCoy lose easily, hardly a contest at all. O'Dowd was a rugged fighter but nowhere near Darcy's class. Now lets address the fact that the one time he got lucky with George Chip, Chip was overweight and therefore no title should ever have been at stake, anyway this so called title holder the loses newspaper defenses and other ND fights against, oh, lets see, Billy Murray a guy Darcy beat real easy, not once BUT TWICE in a row,..... is beaten easily by a dude called Billy Grupp who had lost 5 out of 12, lost to KO Brennan a pretty decent fighter and then.,.,...... LOL loses to a guy who had just one real fight, a virtual debutant called Freddie Kieber,. loses to Bartfield and to dude called Bill Fleming... lets see he loses 7 of his next nine fights after the Chip fight... oh is this your champion Steve ?.... I thought you held high standards..... anyway lets continue this embarrassing story... one of those two wins there was against a DEBUTANT btw.......... the newspapers then give him some wins with a loss against Bartfield again before meeting Chip again where apparently they put the title up for grabs but of course only if a KO results but to prove the last time was a fluke Chip beats McCoy up badly with at least two knockdowns, this fight wasn't close.
........................ oops I forgot to mention Silent Martin beats him too, The he fights Jimmy Clabby who Darcy beat twice and there should be no doubt that Clabby was all class and of course who can blame McCoy for losing to him but of course it his errr, ummm... second title defense but still somehow McCoy stays with this now highly useless belt, (thank the gods for Greb for giving the belt credibility years later).........there is another "defense" next figh, a draw against the world famous Silent Martin then again next fight to the household name, Young Ahearn (reasonable fighter though)... ohh dear McCoy LOSES AGAIN !!!!!!.................... This gets even sadder now ... a draw with Bartfield which now brings us to the first real fight with judges he has, a 15 rounder with a DEBUTANT, a guy who has never had a fight before AND McCOY LOSES the decision.... Come on... I dare you to keep defending this ABSURD title claimant....... HE CAN'T WIN A FIGHT FFS...... he draws with Zulu Kid... then two errr ummm... "defenses" in a row and of course he loses... to Silent Martin and Young Ahearn again then this guy thinks he has a chance against Chip in next fight (seriously, whoever managed this McCoy should have been jailed for continuously allowing the poor guy to get in the ring after all this)....... of course Chip is a hell of a fighter and wins again. need I continue ?????.. well a couple of fights later he can only manage a draw against a guy with two fights to his name....... it never improves this story from here on in either... this is a joke of a title compared to the fights Darcy and others from America were having downunder...... here is what the newspaper says when he fights Greb....................................................""" Greb won the newspaper decision according to the Pittsburgh Post. This was the first 10-rounder held in Pittsburgh under the new law. Both men weighed below the middleweight limit. "Greb won every round..Never did he fight an easier opponent. And never did he fight a more determined and ferocious battle..Greb did everything imaginable to McCoy. He hit him enough times to sink a fleet of gunboats..Many times..Greb pumped in stiff punches in such profusion that it seemed impossible that McCoy could stand the gaff." It was a slaughter. Other than a swinging left, McCoy had no weapons, and Greb had no difficulty avoiding his left. McCoy appeared as a third-rater who survived by grabbing and by ruggedness and gameness. He backed away throughout. Greb went all out for a knockout in the tend, battering McCoy without mercy, but to no avail.""""

 

So there is your champ... chump.

 

Anyone else wanna claim McCoy is a champion ????

 

Again, just because McCoy wasnt a great fighter doesnt give YOU the grounds to claim that he wasnt champ despite knocking out the champ and being recognized as such. Who are you but some blind rabid moronic Darcy worshipper who wants so bad to believe his fav was a champ that he will disregard the entire championship principle that boxing was founded on. You sound like a nut. Always have. You cant refute anything ive said so you fall back on unproven subjective arguments like "this guy woulda beat that guy." Sorry pal boxing dont work like that. Never did. Not sure what youve been watching all these yrs. You know who else said this guy beats that guy? Chips fans. Then he got knocked out and found himself an ex champ. I realize that you have convinced yourself that at that moment darcy suddenly became champ via osmosis but again, thats not how boxing works. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

i'll take monzon. he's gat a better style matchup than hagler.

i'd be fairly confident about jones pre fight, but if i bet on that i can see myself having a minor heart attack every time sam moves his fists.

darcy isn't the worst shout but i'd want a more experienced version than actually existed.

 

Look the weight difference is well noted but a huge part of Greb's legacy is how well he did against much larger fighters .. he did not by any means excel against Norfolk .. as far as a style wise comparison between Langford I view it as how Greb would do or did against extremely strong, fast, well conditioned hard men .. while Langford and Norfolk were not mirror images they both fit that inscription .. both could box or punch and both had speed .. no knock to Greb by any means ..

 

We arent talking about his legacy we are talking about 160 vs 160. Norfolk never weighed even close to 160 against greb. A big part of Langfords legacy is going against bigger fighters too and he struggled or lost sometimes too but Greb isnt fighting the HW version of Langford hes fighting the MW version.

 

On film, Langford has a weakness. His guard is low, and he can be out jabbed and maneuvered especially vs. faster fighters.

So being a good boxer with speed is priority one.

Priority two is you better have a good chin. Sam could hit!

Priority three, fight smart!

I think Leonard would be a good pick to beat Langford for the reasons mentioned. Robinson and Hopkins are also good picks.

Standing toe to toe or exchanging with Langford would most likely you a loser. Fitzsimmons and GGG would be action based fights. Langford was very hard to stop and had a heck of a punch.

PS: Langford best weight was above 170.

 

When we talk about Les Darcy as an all-time great middleweight who died at an early age questioning his greatness compared to a Ketchel, Fitz, Sam Langford, Greb, Walker, Freddie Steele, Robinson, Hagler, Monzon etc, it is all conjecture as he died so young...Truly we cannot be certain that the Les Darcy who died so young would not have had his hands full with two other Aussies of later years such as Ron Richards [looks great on film] and the tragic Dave Sands who was a helluva fighter who would have given Ray Robinson hell if he could have gotten Robbie in the ring with him. A question that can never be answered sadly...