Any reason a champ with 23 title defenses, 9 yr reign not be considered an ATG?

Well first of all Calzaghe retired undefeated, Dariusz didn't. calzaghe has a better overall resume. He also fought the best man in the division twice. Absolutely obliterated Lacy to win the lineal title and then solidified himself as the best super middleweight of his era by comfortably beating Kessler. By doing this he also unified the 3 of the major 4 belts. You can give Dariusz some credit for getting screwed over, but at the end of the day, he didn't unify the titles. Joe then went on to win a second lineal title in the light heavyweight division. Dariusz stepped up to cruiserweight and fought a relative nobody.

In fact, I don't see anyway you could put Dariusz resume or achievements ahead of Joe's in any way, shape or form. I don't see a need to even get started on B-Hop

 

DM was a good fighter in his mid-late 90s prime, but the Rocchigiani con job left a bad taste in the mouth and always made me root against him.

He was never really durable enough to fight the way he did and win against the real top light-heavies-the borderline and all-time greats of the divisions history.Against who he did fight though, he was often quite impressive offensively until he became a plodding toiler circa 2000.

 

People can say he's lineal but he happily hid behind a WBO title and avoided most the top contenders until he lost his title. He has some good wins no doubt but missed allot of names.

He faked injury while losing to get a DQ win. Beat Rocchigiani when the latter had been inactive for 3 years, but didn't prove himself the better man.

 

hold on, you've been touting his merits and insinuating he's underrated for pages on end and you haven't even watched one of the more important fights of his career?.

 

That fight & especially the Barber fight. Now there's a name you don't hear mentioned often. But that bout pretty much diminished his skills a ton and illustrates just how tough a sport boxing really is and how hard it can be to overcome a loss.

Dariusz was a known commodity as an amateur and didn't just burst on the scene out of nowhere. There was pedigree always there before even turning pro. and his early pro development was a real real good job of sculpting and refining a fighter and a pleasure to watch unfold.

 

He's sort of similar to Chris John in a way.

He took top spot in the division but then petered out whilst other top names fought each other.

 

After the fight it was reported that Michalczewski's promoter Klaus-Peter Kohl said: "Guthrie is Don King's man and we don't want to do any business with him."
DM ducked Guthrie openly. He deserved to lose that belt. Whilst he shouldn't be punished for loyalty he also chose wbo over wba and considering the times that was a silly move to make.

What hurts him the most is whilst he was having all these political issues and weak defences, the p4p king was unifying every title in spectacular fashion.

Plonk DM in any era and I don't think anyone would be positive of him ruling it.

 

Hi mate, below are various links and a video, that show how hard it was to make the fight.

HBO wanted to stage a double header to promote the fight, but DM's promoter/advisor Peter Kohl wasn't interested.

It was a great idea to showcase DM to the American public, and to hype the fight. But Kohl tried to spin it as though it was an insult to Dariusz. Apparently it was an insult, even though they were happy to fight the likes of Richard Hall twice, and Joey De Grandis in Germany for a lot less. It was a great idea to showcase the double header, and if Dariusz had been serious about wanting to fight Roy, he'd have never have turned down the opportunity in my honest opinion.

Have a read of everything, and see what you think. I personally feel that Dariusz was content doing what he was doing in Germany, and he didn't want to take the risk of losing. Obviously other people may see things differently to me.




Promoter Kohl: "Michalczewski is not Undercard


Roy Jones wants to "Tiger" in the context of program

last updated: 12.07.2000 - 17:55 New York (sid) The latest idea from the camp of Profibox superstar Roy Jones Jr. would bring light heavyweight champion Dariusz Michalczewski crazy. The pay-TV giant HBO wants the 18th Title defense against WBO titlist David Telesco get into the Framework Programme of the World Cup of triple champion Jones against Eric Harding in New Orleans. This is the sale of the Jones fights in the HBO Pay-Per-View offshoot TVKO be boosted.

"I find this idea perfectly. She is bold, but not outside the Realtität", HBO's executive director Kerry Davis said in the USA Today newspaper. For the fight against the unattractive Harding to the TV fans shell out the equivalent of 70 marks proud. Participation by Michalczewski would significantly enhance the event.
"It's a great idea, and Roy is interested in," said Jones-lawyer Stan Levin and presented Michalczewski then even a title unification with Jones promised, "If he makes the first move, would Roy in turn seriously considering a fight in Germany do."

Michalczewski wants to crown has long been a fight against Roy Jones, to the best light heavyweight in the world. The Hamburg promoter Klaus-Peter Kohl had the WBC WBA IBF champion made an offer over ten million dollars, Jones calls but twice. Michalczewski, whose fight against Telesco also on 9 September was held last week scolded again that Jones would chicken out before him.
Kohl is HBO's offer, however, still skeptical. "Dariusz is no Undercard Fighter Like the American television network Roy Jones would like to see as the main fighters, the Germans also want Dariusz as an attraction also are financial issues not clarified why should Dariusz.. always suffer a disadvantage? "




Also, in 2001, Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with HBO representatives to discuss the fight, but they couldn't get Kohl to negotiate.


In the works: German promoter Peter Kohl is coming to New York next week to meet with representatives for Roy Jones Jr., including executives with HBO, to discuss a meeting between Jones and Dariusz Michalczewski. It is the most positive sign yet that a deal can be worked out.

Brad Jacobs, the manager for Jones, said yesterday that there had been little progress in his efforts to get Kohl to even come up with a counter-offer to two proposals he has sent him. Jacobs said there hadn't even been any telephone conversations between himself and Kohl. Kohl rejected his offers through the mail.
In the works: German promoter Peter Kohl is coming to New York next week to meet with representatives for Roy Jones Jr., including executives with HBO, to discuss a meeting between Jones and Dariusz Michalczewski. It is the most positive sign yet that a deal can be worked out.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2001...lyn-bridge-hbo




July 25, 2001 – By Paul Upham: WBC, WBA, IBF and IBO light-heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jr’s adviser and representative Brad Jacobs has denied claims by WBO title-holder Dariusz Michalczewski’s promoter and Universum head Klaus Peter Kohl that a Jones Jr- Michalczewski bout is close to being made. “Unless he’s got some magical offer that he’s putting on the table to us, I really don’t know what he is talking about,” said Jacobs.

“I haven’t talked to him in over two months. Kerry Davis from HBO hasn’t talked to him in nearly a month, so I don’t know where he can come off and say anything like that since we haven’t had any conversations.”

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/pa...lczewski-claim




With Jones contracted to HBO for five more fights and his star fading, the network realizes that Michalczewski is the one opponent who can help rejuvenate interest in him. After the Harmon bout, HBO's Kery Davis said he would go all out to put the bout together.

"We've tried to solicit a number from them to give us a starting point in negotiations, but I can't even get Kohl on the phone," Davis said. "We can't even get him to give us an absurd number to start the ball rolling. But we're trying."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxin...2-28-jones.htm




Jones is fighting Gonzalez on PPV in part because his HBO deal calls for only two fights a year. HBO is saving the second one for a possible Michalczewski bout. "This allows me to keep that fight on course for later this year," HBO's Kery Davis said. "If he fights a summer bout on HBO, it doesn't leave money for a Michalczewski fight, and I want that fight on HBO."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxin...4-02-jones.htm




"He needs a big fight," said Kery Davis, HBO senior VP of programming. "There's nothing else to say. That's the bottom line."

Lining that up will be difficult because two fighters fans want to see him meet - Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad - have signed on for a middleweight unification tournament. And Dariusz Michalczewski, a Polish light heavyweight who boxes primarily in Germany, is refusing the come to the U.S. to fight Jones. And Jones has said that he isn't going to Germany to meet Michalczewski. Jones doesn't even believe a KO against Michalczewski is enough in Germany. (Graciano I fight comes to mind)

Davis said Michalczewski and his promoter, Peter Kohl, have made negotiating difficult. But HBO is moving in that direction.

"It's Michalczewski or bust," Davis said. "We've been trying to make this fight for weeks."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2001...wski-big-fight




Thanks to general zod, for originally sourcing the links.



Here is an interesting article from 2003, while Roy was lining up the John Ruiz fight. Here Murad Muhammad who was Roy's adviser, talks about the kind of money Dariusz was making in Germany at the time, and what he wanted for a fight with Roy.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&ved=0CG0QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondsout.com%2Fusa-boxing-news%2Fusa-boxing-news%2Fmurad-muhammad-jones-v-ruiz-is-99-done&ei=6-_JUIrRKamA0AW08oGYBw&usg=AFQjCNHtu1lAhg-zmZufpaPl5RzXOY4JTg



Finally, here is an interview with Roy, from June of last year. It was in Poland just prior to his fight with Pawel Glazewski.

Watch from the 6th minute onwards.

http://m.youtube.com/results?q=roy jones jr pawel glazewski#/watch?v=JWgQYK16wNQ



Regards, Loudon.

 

Was he lineal for real though? Even that is open to debate.

when Maske and Hill fought the p4p #1 had already moved into the division and secured a title fight. No undisputed lineage could seriously circumvent Jones.

I'm not denying it was the top 2 who made the fight I'm just asking how relevant that really was to the current climate because as I remember it DM was never considered ruler of the division.

I get that people crave purity with championship claims but this particular line of thinking is a bit misguided today imo.

I hope one day it returns to that way but until it does lets not pretend lineal is anything more than a neat concept.

If you believe in lineal, you believe in grachev.

 

He deserves to be, He fought most of the guys Jones fought and that was a match that should have been made, a friend of mine sparred with him in Germany and said he could stop you in your tracks with a jab....but he had too many wars and fizzled in the end, last few fights he was toast

 

I think it's very arguable that none of the greats have a win against a fighter as good as prime RJJ on their record. Toney and Hopkins have losses against him, and they are highly regarded (rightfully so).

Don't know much about DMs career, but to say that he can't be great because he didn't beat Jones is nonsense.

 

Or khaosai Galaxy.


John was an ordinary fighter imo.a good comparison for career arc, but not talent i'd say.