Anybody Rank Artur Grigorian Top Ten All Time At Lightweight?

mcvey · Oct 10, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Well it says just, he's not worth to be known, but I know René Weller (who was world class in opposite to him).
Grigorian was about hundred times as long champion as Canzoneri.

Ross is mainly rated at Welterweight, there he has most accomplished. No expert rate him high at Lightweight (you and 1 - 2 others here do this exclusively).

Well de la Hoyas competition is here very poor; 4 at least of these are Feather- or Superfeatherweights (if not all 5), faded and none of them achieved much at Lightweight (only Ruelas was some kind of contender at Lightweight): Paez was already defeated by Lopez at Super-Featherweight and Gonzalez at Lightweight, Molina also by Lopez (several times)among others, Leija was on the slide too and moved up for this.

Grigorian fought at least real lightweights, which were ranked there before. There were Balbi and Zoff far more close to their best than these opponents, and they were at least world champions at Lightweight (which the others never were). He had a lot harder competition than Terry Flanaghan or Ricky Burns.
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You not knowing who Joe Old Bones Brown was says it all!
He was the undisputed lightweight champion of the world from 1956 until 1962
Rene Weller? He wasn't a contemporary of Brown's! His protected career stretched from 81-93 the vast majority of his fights being on his home-turf of Germany, he was Euro level.
Among those he managed to avoid are the following:
Pendleton
Spann
Edwards
Lockridge
Haugen
Mitchell
Lopez
Camacho
Taylor
Whitaker
Gamache
Rosario
Paul
Mancini
Bramble
Crawley
Davis Jnr
Alli
Ruelas

That's just for starters!

Who did Canzoneri beat at lightweight?
Jimmy McLarnin
Frankie Klick
Bobby Pacho
Lou Ambers
Baby Arizmendi
Eddie Zivic

Who did Ross beat at lightweight?
Billy Petrolle
Battling Battalino
Ray Miller
Tony Canzoneri
Sammy Fuller
Jimmy McLarnin

Who did De La Hoya beat at lightweight?
Jorge Paez
Rafael Ruelas
Genaro Hernandez
John John Molina
Jesse James Leija
And according to you Joe Brown was the abolishionist who operated the"Underground Railway"!! You f*cking nut-case!
Thanks for the entertainment!

Smokin Bert · Oct 10, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

If you was, then you would know he was at his best, as IBC champion with about 25 wins and cero defeats. You just pretending nonsense: Grigorian had him several times knocked down, while he was quickly down, after he had him already knocked (4. round was Clark, in the 5. King Artur), while this was a candidate for fight of the year, similar to Maidana vs. Ortiz almost and Clark was in better shape than against Sirimonogol.

You only proved you know nothing about Michael Clark, nor about Artur Grigorian; you made a school clown here.
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On the contrary, I know Cold Blood very well. We are from the same city, and, he asked me to manage him around the time of that fight. When I saw firsthand how little he was training for the Grigorian fight, and how little he listened in camp, I declined. He almost proved me wrong and came close to stopping Artur. But, that says more about Grigorian than it does about Clark who had no power, and refused to take his career seriously enough when it mattered most.

mcvey · Oct 11, 2017

Smokin Bert said: ↑

On the contrary, I know Cold Blood very well. We are from the same city, and, he asked me to manage him around the time of that fight. When I saw firsthand how little he was training for the Grigorian fight, and how little he listened in camp, I declined. He almost proved me wrong and came close to stopping Artur. But, that says more about Grigorian than it does about Clark who had no power, and refused to take his career seriously enough when it mattered most.
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I reckon this seals the deal!

mcvey · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Weller was two time European champion (his only defeat was a robbery in Denmark, against contender Jenssen, who he dominated later) and WAA champion. Just the first one made him more than Euro level (as there was only one European champion at that time), aside if you call Graham or Cooper also Euro level. He was very fast and slick, but had not the biggest punching-power. He's arguable pound for pound top 10 all time of German boxers (could be rated higher than Sturm). He got just never a world title shot of the main bodies.

Eddie Zivic is just known for his brother (like Wladimir Powetkin or Jose Angel Cotto), the one who hold the worst record of all world title holders. Ambers was likely over the hill when.

Ross fought mainly at Welterweight and probably most of these guys too (I doubt more than two were inside the limit).

As I mentioned before, all these opponents of de la Hoya were no lightweights nor ranked there at that time (they moved 1 - 2 weight-classes up just for it and had pretty much never competed there before and often afterwwards). Antonio Rivera is probably the best lightweight-opponent of Oscar de la Hoya, but he's only about the eighth best opponent of Artur Grigorian.

I know Joe Brown was a horse (of Terence Hill in the film Renegate)...
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Yeah Ambers was over the hill, he only fought another 54 fights over the next 6 years losing only 4!
Beating among others Canzoneri,Armstrong,Zivic,Montanez Davis,Arizmendi!
And I know you are an ass!

mcvey · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

You have as much understanding of boxing as a squirrell of quantum physique!

Grigorian, who was semi-retired when and came from a long lay-off, was not knocked out by Freitas (who was pound for pound the hardest puncher when), but lost by decision in Massashusetts or Conneticut, when he fought the first time outside of Eurasia.
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That's right ,he lasted the distance only being floored 4 times!Freitas walked it! He wasn't semi -retired and he was out less than a year! De la Hoya won the Lightweight WBO title from Paez and defended it against the following.
Leija
Molina
Hernandez
Griffith
Avila
Ross fought over 60 fights at lightweight!
You numpty!

Smokin Bert · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

How can you come to this conclusion (prentend it); when Grigorian knocked him down before and after he was it? Clark got knocked about 2 or 3 times, while the title-defender was it just once (possible in the same round where the challenger was counted too, or one later), when he was possible over-confident, but stopped him not far later.
I don't think you have watched the fight (or you are biased)! As Michael Clark was from stopping Artur Grigorian about as far away as Braddock was from a knockout over Louis or Braddley to stop Pacquaio.

He also won after this first defeat, till his next against former two divison WBC champion Sikmanasak, about twenty bouts in row. So it doesn't appear to me that he was on the slide right there, as you suggested.
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Listen, Ra: All I can tell you is that I was there with Michael Clark before that fight with Grigorian. It was incredible that he was even getting a title shot based on how few quality fighters he had beaten. I discussed strategy with him and stressed the importance of training for that fight. I told him it was most likely a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. He wouldn't listen. He trained like ****, and just wanted to party every night. And, as a result, he lost the fight. Clark had some skills, but no power. And he was extremely protected here in Columbus. A few fights later (fighting at home) he got bounced all over the ring by Vivian Harris. I was ringside. And, despite some wins, Clark never beat a top 20 opponent again. Quite frankly, I am not sure he beat a fighter ranked in the top 10 his entire career. Grigorian was a superior fighter to Michael Clark. I am not arguing he wasn't. But, I do not believe that Michael Clark is in the top 50 lightweights of the last 20 years. And, the fact that an untrained Clark was competitive with Grigorian shows you that he does not belong in any discussion of ATG lightweights.

mcvey · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Well then was it probably just a lucky fail/ fluck for Canzoneri (as proved the their next fights), due to the frequency of their bouts, like Rahman had over Lewis and Robinson had vs. Jones.
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You have an excuse for every occasion! They got lucky ,they were robbed, they were semi retired! It's all Bullsh*t!

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

Paez never held a title at Lightweight (not even Super-Feathweight); de la Hoya got the vacant one!

Oh, less than a year... that's so short... Ali was about one year inactive when he fought Holmes.

Well neither of de la Hoyas opponents were rated at Lightweight! On the other hand won Stefano Zoff against Julien Lorcy, a two time WBA champion and who was top 10 in the divison; Raul Horace Balbi was around the time of their fight WBA champion too.

Ross fought most of his notable opponents at Welterweight (partly Light-Welterweight), the lightweights were mainly over the limited in these.
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Yes it was for the vacant title, I thought I had typed that.
Sorry they were, Molina,Leija ,Paez,Griffith and Hernandez were all rated at light weight.
Balbi was briefly ranked in 2001 but he fought Grigorian in1997!
Zoff was number 10 in1999,but he fought Grigorian in2002!

mcvey · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

I question just, how you can alleged that he was over the hill at that time? This just appears for me, you doesn't know him at all.

I never claimed he was top 50 of all time, but he was (as IBC champion when) a certain contender, top 15 or possible top 10 at that time.

It was only few rounds competitive, but Grigorian dominated more than the half. That he was it in these just shows me, that Clark had to be in not so bad shape at all.
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Yes because it doesnt fit in with your agenda he has to be lying!
Do you know I can't insult you more deeply than to say you run Mendoza a close second as a bull sh*tting prevaricator!

NoNeck · Oct 11, 2017

Grigorian is probably a top ten lightweight for guys with three syllable last names.

klompton2 · Oct 11, 2017

Grigorian was nothing special. Not a bad fighter but not great. Nowhere remotely near top 10 all time lightweight. I had followed his career pretty closely and when I interviewed Spadafora in 2001 or 2002 he mentioned they were scouting Artur as a possible opponent. He wanted to know my thoughts and I told him if he didnt take him lightly he would win. I sent his trainer Tommy Yankello copies of Grigorians bouts in exchange for a bunch of sparring footage of Paul with guys like Dorrin, Mayweather, and Robert West a middleweight. He ran into some issues shortly thereafter and the fight was never made but Paul would have outpointed Grigorian at that point. I could rattle off 20 or 30 lightweights without trying that would have beaten. He was a solid contender type but no better. His WBO title was worthless IMO as the WBO was handing their belts to the Euro market like candy at that time.

klompton2 · Oct 11, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

These comments here just proves my thesis how underrated Grigorian is (the most underestimated lightweight possible).
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No they prove that your opinions are wholly your own and totally out of step with accepted opinion.

mcvey · Oct 12, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

These comments here just proves my thesis how underrated Grigorian is (the most underestimated lightweight possible).
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We have two respected posters who were personally acquainted with two of Grigorian's oppponents, they both said he was a moderate fighter, yet you claim he is a top ten all time lightweight! Take a look at the other posts,does anyone agree with you? That should tell you something,but I doubt it does!

mcvey · Oct 12, 2017

Ra's Al-Ghul said: ↑

I noticed you didn't list Laguna, Mancini, Abgott and Ramos; these should be clearly higher ranked than de la Hoya (also than Ross, Canzoneri and Montgomery perhaps), the first is even top 20 in my opinion.
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I would put Laguna,Mancini and Ramos above Grigorian, I was just taking names off the top of my head. I'd put loads of lightweights above Grigorian , some that never held versions of the title,for example
Petrolle
Charnley
And others like
Kaplan
Berg
Fuller
Joyce
Carter
Dupas
Lane
Perkins
Grant
Watt

WTF is ABGOTT?

Ronnie Raygun · Oct 12, 2017

I have him rated as who the fck is he top ten fighter

mcvey · Oct 12, 2017

Ronnie Raygun said: ↑

I have him rated as who the fck is he top ten fighter
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He's an all time top ten great Lightweight according to Rasta Gooly

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