Anyone else feel the typical Mike Tyson 'flaw' is over-exaggerated?

Black2023. It's hard for me to respond to you seriously with a post like that. Bringing up Spinks, Holmes and Berbick? lol. Do you want me to go into Williams and Mcbride? just ridiculous. I'll ignore that.

So firstly to be clear again, I'm talking about the prime Ali. Not the fat, washed up version they always show on ESPN. Yes the Ali of the late 60's. The one of the Folley and Williams fights would beat Tyson clearly. They do Ali an injustice constantly showing his fights in the 70’s. I know you are young guys so Look at his footage from 1964-67. Sonny Liston 1 through to Zora Folley. You will see an insane fighting machine.

Secondly, Tyson was not a great infighter. Frazier was. People assumed Tyson is a great infighter because he is short, but that’s not the case. Everytime Tyson got tied up on the inside, he allows himself to be tied up and then he resets and goes into his back and forth bopping rhythm. Frazier was much more physically tough, walked his man better and most importantly he could fight MUCH harder for LONGER. Which is the crucial point. Watch a prime Frazier. Frazier for me lost his prime in the 1st Ali fight. Look at his fights with Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis and Bob Foster.

Frazier is a different animal to Tyson and he's not as easy to tie up. Frazier does not discourage when things don’t go his way. Frazier also accelerates as the fight goes on, where as Tyson decelerates.

Thirdly. I'll tell you why i brought up the character of Ali's and why this would win him the fight. Because character flaws are Tyson's biggest weakness and it's Ali biggest strength. When your opponents weakness is your biggest strength that's a game-changer.

Tyson fights a frenetic almost panic type of fight. As high as Tyson’s boxing IQ is in terms of his knowledge, he never learned to take something off of his punches and settle down and fight a prolonged fight. Think about that. That in itself is a character flaw. When you fail to do something that you know will benefit you. Tyson had no confidence in his ability to carry a long fight. On the other hand Ali believed he could fight 25 rounds if he had to.

Ali could absorb insane amounts of punishment. When Ali realized he was a shot fighter in the 70’s and his hands were brittle, so the ko's weren’t coming as frequent, he tuned his body for warfare. That’s why he was stopped just once in 61 fights and that was a corner stoppage. Because of his fighting style and good looks, people don’t equate him with supreme toughness, but Ali could be the toughest men to EVER step foot in a ring. He would beat Tyson on his toughness if required. But in his prime he wouldn't even need that, because his physical gifts would've overwhelmed Mike.

Ali’s legs would allow him to escape the bumrushes, his athleticism, radar like instincts, heart and jab would allow him to get his respect and his pedigree would stop Tyson late everytime my friends. Styles. There is nothing that anybody that can tell me to convince me could beat a prime Ali. Ali would not even engage Tyson early. He was also supremely smart. He would stay on his P's and Q's in a big fight like this and break Tyson down. Take him to deep waters and drown him with 2 hands.

Let’s go back to character. Tyson would not fight an old man in George Foreman, that Ali fought when he was a young man. Ali is 7 years older than Foreman. Tyson is 17 years younger!

I am a big Tyson fan. I have tried to defend him through the years. But here is the reality. In his prime and after, Tyson lacked 'staying power'. Tyson could never put himself in a different place mentally. Everytime he was faced with a situation that forced him to do that, he was stopped in fights. Tyson never got long enough to lose a fight by decision. Buster Douglas fought with a certain style against Tyson. Putting a ramrod jab in his face, fighting well from range and showing incredible guts. Remind you of anyone? Guess what though, Ali could be that special on more nights then not.

Tyson who is a short, pressure type of fighter, ALLOWED himself to be tied up more than any other fighter of his caliber I have ever seen. Even before the Douglas loss. Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, even guys he stopped big time in Jose Ribalta, James Tillis, Jesse Ferguson all tied Tyson up, rather easily. At the time it did not alarm anybody but it was very relevant. Holyfield was able to walk Tyson around the ring at will in both fights in clinches. Ali was tie Tyson up, disrupt his rhythm and momentum and put his weight on him.

Ask yourself, why Tyson wouldn’t work more out of clinches. I think I know. He had no confidence in his stamina. It takes energy to do that. Tyson also lost form after 4 rounds of every fight he was ever in. The clinches became more apparent and prolonged. His feet became squared. His head movement stopped and he started throwing one bomb at a time. Go to each of his prime fights and look at the 1st two rounds. Then fast forward to round 5 and you see a huge difference in Tyson.

Tyson’s only chance against Ali would be to hit him with a death shot on the nerve centre in the first 2 rounds. Ali reflexes were too superior to get hit with that shot, in a fight THAT big. Plus Ali has one of the greatest chins in history. In a 12 round era, Tyson would have little chance with him. In a 15 round era he would have an even smaller chance with him.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't insult ANYONE, not even someone like PK who i find hard to take seriously, tbh. But both your (PK and Black) opinions are wrong. Tyson himself would tell you. He is even quoted as saying "Ali is better than everybody else, because he has more character". This fight would be won on the inside and with character. Mike Tyson has too many character flaws for this type of fight and Ali's character is impeccable.

 

my cut off is post prison.

douglas was just a lacklustre performance.

he didn't even come out bombing in that fight.

in a trance that night. :blood

the 1st ruddock fight was vintage tyson.

wrecking ball. :yep

 

Completely correct.

I feel the regard for Tyson is like an elastic band that's been stretched to its limit, then it snapped back and hit him in the face. It was like the general public used to find it unimaginable that he wasn't the perfect fighting machine, at one point, invincible, can't be stopped, can't be out-pointed, and anyone who didn't believe it sat back and waited to jump on his inevitable decline. Now, it's all gone the other way.

But, this is what happens. Aggressive, action-packed big names that score exciting knockouts, they get people excited enough to want to overrate them, then they go downhill, retire and people start subjecting them to critical thinking, then the more defensive, unexciting fighters are underrated until they retire and the majority start slowly accepting what they did.

What was I saying? Oh, yeah. Yeeeeeeeehaw, Brittards! If Haye hadna run Wlad wudda kilt his ass!

 

:rofl atsch

 

Just when I thought Black couldn't get any more ******ed.....

 

What's the deal with this Black Guy? (no racist)

I mean its clear he's a twat but has he got mental issues or something?

 

There's been some quality posts in this thread, and I've certainly got nothing more to add.

Maybe if I'd have turned up to the party earlier I could've mentioned some of the more obvious points that have already been greatly elaborated on.

:good Good thread, Sports.

 

Tyson beat quite a few fighters who weren't afraid of him. Tyson didn't have to think you were afraid of him to beat you down

 

I know the full story behind those fights, Ali probably had Parkinson in 76 or the start...but hey ho. That physical wear and tear, Lennox looked physically gone in the first round against Vitali...somtimes the bodies fails you.


My point is not to deride Ali, he is on the top table for boxing, BUT I feel other great fighters get smeared with a different brush.


If i showed you a tape of Ali against Jones...everyone would think im crazy saying he was the best of his time, but '****' happens, fighters lose, what he showed was over two decades he dominated opposition of the highest calibre.


The mad hate that the Klitshckos get, Tyson or Lewis get compared to Ali is very questionable to say the least.

 

Im sorry Slip but its hard for me to take you seriously, people actually count Tyson losses to Holyfield, Lewis, Williams and McBride? Double standard.

So we cant count the losses big George had against Holy, Morrison, Schultz.

Can we count Frazier losses to Formeman in 75? Frazier was blind and fat.

Can we count J. Louis loss to Charles and Marciano?

R. Jones losses to Calzaghe?


They are there, they are factual, what you gonna do? Change history?


Dont tell me anything on Ali, Ive given him enough praise as it is.


Look at my posts, head to head...Ali along with Lewis and Tyson do it for me.

Ali of 67 would have made Shavers, Young, Norton look very average.


Can we count Holmes win against Mercer? Holmes was physically gone, not the 1982 version.


So because Ali lost, we cant count? Why did he take the fights on>


Tyson lost once then.

Louis lost once

Holyfield Bowe X2, Moorer, Lewis and that its.

Lets be fair.

 

Flea and the rest of the gang are searching into the abyss.

Yeah I have mental issues, its called reality.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRh9m-rrvIk[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCyOGlY6XWU[/ame]



Ali still tearing Tyson to pieces?

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFFDe9FQL3s[/ame]


Ali best performance -




I guess I dont know what im talking about lol lol lol

 

Cleveland Williams was shot (literally) so, whilst impressive in terms of aesthetics, not that impressive a win/performance IMO.

I'd roll with the 15th round of Bonavena as a personal 'wow' moment for me.

 

still a good win for Ali and for you Flea....williams was bigger than brewster muscle weight and height.


Again mad prop fpr Ali.......Williams was the second best fighter Ali fought in the 60s.


Ali great, Ali not a monster without fault, a man...and a great fighter....