Anyone else rank Ezzard Charles top 5 p4p of all time?

Charles came back in 1946 after serving in the U.S. Military. Prior to 1946 he was 30-4-1 but had not yet peaked.

He went 39-1 overall and 9-0 in HW World Title Fights from 1946 - July of 1951.

Among others, Charles beat-

Anton Christoforidis KO3
Charley Burley x2
Jose Basora KO5
Joey Maxim x5
Archie Moore x3, once by KO
Lloyd Marshall 2 out of 3, both wins by KO
Jimmy Bivins 4 out of 5, once by KO
Elmer Ray 1 out of 2, WKO9
Jersey Joe Walcott 2 out of 4
Gus Lesnevish KO7
Joe Louis W15
Rex Layne 2 out of 3, once by KO

25-6 vs. these men... some of the losses could have went either way

 

Christ, I googled a KO magazine ratings list of the top-50 pound-4-pounders of all-time and they rate Ezzard Charles somewhere in the mid-20s........ I checked it last night when I was tweaking pretty hard on Kentucky Gentleman whiskey...... I'm not gonna argue with KO magazine......

NO! I do not hold Charles' tail-end losses on his career against him in my ratings.... If I gotta judge the dude's greatness, I already stated it was from 1946 thru 1951...... I think that five year period was his best years........

MR.BILL

 

Right on MR.BILL! Charles was awesome during that time. Even the loss to Elmer Ray and the 2nd loss to Walcott (in 1952) could have went either way. Many people felt he should have regained the title vs. Walcott in their 4th and final fight. As it was he went 2-2 vs. Walcott and 1-1 (1) vs. Ray.

In his 94th and 95th pro fights he lost close fights to Nino Valdes and Harold Johnson that honestly could have went either way.

In his 98th and 99th pro fights he gave a prime Marciano absolute hell despite being well past prime, L15 and LKOby8. He was 86-12-1 after the fights with Rocky... he went just 10-13 in his next 23 fights, then retired.

 

I wrote earlier that '54 was the LAST year of whatever Ol' Buzzard Charles had left in his body, in terms of prime-time stuff, but '51 was really his last PEAK year........... Peace...

MR.BILL

 

Suzie, you didnt answer my previous question.

Is there any version of Charles who beats Marciano?

 

I don't have Charles in the top 5, but it's not unreasonable.

Two small issues with Charles.

Size. Charles wins over Burely need to be downgraded a bit, because he was naturally a lot bigger than Bruley. Charles was a big MW, Bruley seems to have a natural WW or JM. It's the Marciano-Charles issue in reverse,

Peak. When Charles fought Bivins at Bivins' peak, he lost. Charles 4 wins against Bvins came when Bivins had dropped considerably from his best. I know Charles was before his peak for the Bivins loss, but I think he was closer to his peak level than Bivins was durring his losses to Charles.

 

Top 10 but not so sure about top 5...

 

Bvins had lost his last two fights before the 46 Charles loss, admittedly to quality opponents.

Immediately before Charles' loss to Bivins, Charles had beaten Joey Maxim twice in a row.

 

Weight is indeed tricky............

My man Larry Holmes was 209 for Norton in 1978 and 211 for Ali in 1980, and 212 1/2 pounds for Cooney in 1982........ Larry Holmes was physically peaked in them yrs as a man / fighter....... Larry Holmes was 217 for Texas Cobb to cap-off 1982 and was criticized for being soft.......

When Larry Holmes fought Timmy Spoon in May of '83, Holmes was 213 to Spoon's solid 219 pounds.......... Holmes claimed he was over-trained and suffered from a case of the shits days before facing Spoon in the ring out in the heated desert of Vegas........

By 1983, at age 33, "The Homer" would never again see 213 pounds ever again in the ring........

Come the fight with Marvis Frazier to end 1983, Holmes was now near or above 220 pounds, and there to stay......

MR.BILL:deal

 

Anyone ever seen the entire (if it exists on tape) 1952 fourth and final fight between Charles and Walcott? I've read that it stunk.......... Walcott got the nod over 15 cuz he was the champ..... Any words??

MR.BILL