anyone else think foreman beat the count?

Ali would have ramped up and ended it. Foreman had absolutely nothing left.

 

I do think he just about did yeah, but he was out of it and I've always assumed the ref stopped it on that. Considering how dehydrated George was, that's an extremely dangerous time to be getting punched in the head.

 

Agree with all of that. What i find hard to understand is why people can't credit ali for totally out thinking and out fighting foreman at his own game. Instead some say the heat got to george? so what.Ali fought under the same conditions.Ali was actually old and worn compared to george. He was to mentally tough for george...All day long he beats foreman.

 

I think George was done whether he beat the count or not. I'v noticed a lot lately when guys seem to beat the count but the fight is stopped, like when the ref. reaches 10 but the guys off the ground, coming up but his hands are not touching the canvas anymore. More often than not when the ref. waves his hands that it's over the loser comlains dramatically that he was up. Anyone else seeing alot of this?

 

The man is resented by a lot of boxing fans because he is so widely popular outside of Boxing. They'll find any way to discredit him.

Foreman was done. Finished.

 

Foreman didn't want to continue or be there in the first place, either so it's irrelevant.

He slowly walked back to his corner, head down, defeated.

 

It saved Foreman embarrassment. The next time down Foreman probably would not have made the count. He was done.
Ali would have beat him up bad. George wouldn't have taken much more.

 

Speculation aside, the stoppage was just. Foreman was badly gassing in the final rounds and Ali was teeing off with his right hand. Foreman was finished as a threat, and reduced to being knocked down.

Even IF he beat the count (I think he did by a second if I'm remembering properly), the referee's stoppage was justified, as Foreman did not complain, nor did his corner.

 

Foreman quit, simple as that. What a shame Ali ducked him for the rest of his career.

 

Foreman did not beat Zack Clayton's count, and he was down for more than ten seconds. The youtube timer shows 2:40 when George's knee and glove touch down on the particular clip I just reviewed, while the on screen counter graphic shows 0:11 left in the round. When the youtube timer displays 2:52, and the screen graphic has counted down to :00, he's still on one knee and pushing himself up with his right glove still in contact with the ring surface.

If he had beaten Clayton's count, the round would have been over, and George would have had 60 seconds to recover.

However, the fact would remain that Ali had floored him with the hardest single punch of Muhammad's career, giving Ali an even more massive adrenaline surge against a tired and demoralized Foreman.

Ali could be a great finisher when his opponent was tired and hurt, if he chose to close the show. (Mathis was one of those peculiar instances when he elected not to go for the kill. Obviously, going for George's title necessitated an all out attack.)

Muhammad had a tremendous surplus of energy remaining after returning to his dressing room, as his demeanor during David Frost's interview made apparent, more than enough vitality to finish Foreman off. George's power was gone, and he didn't have the defense to protect himself against the vicious attack Ali would have assaulted him with in round nine. The following year, Muhammad battered Lyle from pillar to post to pillar with 46 unanswered punches in 40 seconds. If he'd beaten Clayton's count, and Sadler let him out for the next stanza, round nine would not have been a pretty sight. (Ali had considerably more respect and appreciation for former sparring mate Lyle than he would have had for George. Even during the post fight interview he was trashing Foreman, something highly unusual for Muhammad. George might have gotten killed.)

Foreman looked drunk in that eighth round, just like he later would against Lyle and Young. For that matter, he looked sloshed almost from the opening bell, reaching out like a baby learning how to walk. Ali's straight sharp lightning bolts were slashing between George's ponderous swings. Muhammad was right, he really did resemble a mummy.

With 54 seconds left in round five, the eventual outcome was established. Seven seconds earlier, Foreman cut loose with the hardest combination he ever landed. Right to the body, hook to the body, hook to the head, hook to the body, hook to the head, two more hooks to the body, all to set up that final monstrous right hand to Ali's jaw. When he steps back to watch his challenger fall, Muhammad drops his gloves to fire back with his immortal, "Is that all you've got?" Of course George has since famously admitted his temptation to say, "Yeah. That's all I've got." We then see a disbelieving Foreman move back in with a tentative jab, but any confidence he might have still had until then has been completely shattered.

Muhammad began his counterattack ten seconds later with a left-right. Once he actually knocked George backwards with 25 seconds remaining in the round, everybody in the stadium seemed to sense that Ali was not simply going to decision him, but take him out at any time.

Reviewing round five, I think a real case can be made for scoring it in favor of Muhammad, on the basis of his ring generalship and control of action during the course of those three minutes. Foreman's aggression was not effective over the first 2:15 of that round, while Ali's return fire over the final 45 seconds left George reeling like a seasick sailor.

The allegation that Foreman might have been drugged does not explain how Ali outperformed him over the first couple of rounds, leaving George with a slightly puffy left eye. Foreman was missing very badly from the opening bell. I've also noticed how Muhammad was subtly redirecting the impact of hard punches George was landing on his arms. This redirection of force can be as draining as missing shots outright.

Foreman did not have the speed or endurance of Frazier and Norton. Nor did he have the insane flashing impact Shavers later buckled Ali repeatedly with. (Or Earnie's reach, handspeed, or even the staying power Earnie showed with Ali, Roy Williams, or in his first match with Henry Clark.) I don't think he would have ever been able to beat an Ali with a heartbeat.

 

You did your research!:good

Good post, and I agree with about everything.

We all know George Foreman was not training much for stamina, because basically, George Foreman and his management never expected him to really go the distance (or have adversity, for that matter). It (and his lack of defensive mastery) almost cost him in his great match with Ron Lyle, and the problems crept back up yet again in '77 when Jimmy Young gave the performance of his life, winning on points.

I do agree that George Foreman, at any point in his career, would have problems with Ali because Ali took a good punch, rolled with punches, and had good, stinging punches. On top of all of this, Ali knew when to throw and when not to throw. George did not.

Ali Bombaye!:bbb

 

When he hit the ground there were only nine seconds left in the round. But I don't think you can be saved by the bell under the rules they were using. Foreman staggered to his feet at about 9 or 9 and a half, but he wouldn't have been able to continue.

I heard Archie Moore say Foreman's corner would have stopped it anyway.

 

Hey, thanks for reading through that long winded post and the positive feedback. I almost decided to delete it after my preview, but chose to submit it at the moment of truth anyways.

The more I watch Ali/Foreman, the more remarkable Muhammad's control of the action appears to me. George manhandled Frazier, Norton, and a variety of other victims. But as Archie Moore pointed out, Ali's grappling tactics drained away his energy completely.

Unlike Muhammad's other tall opponents, the head of Foreman was available to him to pull down on. We don't see him do this to Terrell, Bugner or Wepner, and these inferior opponents all touched gloves with him for round 15. George failed to make optimal use of his greater height.

While Ali's head yanking strategy was hardly a surprise, he was also seen shoving Foreman away at times, with his back against the ropes. For perhaps the only time in his career, George was outmauled, and badly at that. Muhammad was more spider than butterfly or bee for this one, and the ropes were his web. Utter dominance, yes, dominance was the result.

 

That is a long long long long way from a fact. At face value and with hindsight (Foreman has a great chin etc and is perhaps the most durable guy Ali ever put away yada yada) some might argue for but i cannot agree. Foreman was exhausted. Tho slightly circumstancial the VERY light hitting Jimmy Young dropped Foreman when he was tired (tho FAR less tired than vs Ali)

Great overall post tho, as usual a delightful read. I think you and i both agree Ali's power can easily be underrated.

:good