Anyone Give Vitali Klitschko A Chance Prime Frazier?

When did we start judging boxers for their height? Bonavena wasn't smaller than Byrd, Hide or Bean. Vitali didn't dominate them.

Several losses to no-name brand fighters? Bonavena has total of 9 losses, four of them were against Ali, Patterson and Frazier. Then he also lost to Lyle when he was past his prime, Ellis and Folley (two quality contenders) and he has two DQ losses, both when he wasn't in his prime.
Tubbs lost more fights (10) and 7 of them were against no-name brand fighters.

 

So? Vitali Klitschko knew he was in no danger whatsoever and coasted through the contest. I'm not saying that Frazier couldn't land a few meaningless bodyshots.

You're reaching.

 

You're right. I'm reaching and body shots don't hurt, they don't score and Vitali only gets hit when he wants to by punchers no less. No, no, I think you're the one who is reaching and doing it far more than Frazier would have to. Vitali's shoulder didn't prevent him from getting battered to the body by Byrd either who he said was a very hard body puncher. My God, if Chris Byrd is a hard body puncher who can bother VItali, what is Joe Frazier? I mean, really, Safin. You need to do better analysis than "He real tall." kind of arguments. Joe Frazier won the culture war. Vitali couldn't even win one of those in his own country. This guy plays tennis at training camp and got marked up by Kevin Johnson when Johnson threw five power punches and landed two and a half.

 

You can wax sarcastic as much as you like, but you just cited Klitschko's Arreola bout and the effectiveness of Arreola's body shots as a foundational basis for an area Frazier could look to capitalise on.

I've responded by saying that those shots were meaningless and that is supported by the fact that Chris Arreola didn't win a single round in the contest.

Your entire response is just a straw man fallacy.

 

Ohhhh, I get it. I'm being sarcastic and making a straw man fallacy because I disagree with your silliness. SO, it is your contention, sir, that nothing you do in a fight has any meaning whatever if you lose? So, you're just a loser and that's that then? You analyze fights by only those who win and what their work was because only winning is meaningful? In that case, what did anyone ever do to Frazier of any meaning in any of Frazier's victories? Listen, man: It's US vs THEM. And one of these days, you're just gonna have to choose a side. It's about being righteous. Maybe that is something you just can't understand because it's all about sport with you.

 

Actually Vitali was ahead on the cards before his injury against Byrd and he knocked the other two out.

We're not comparing Bonavena to Nate "lucky punch" Tubbs but to Corrie Sanders. Some of Bonavena's conquerors include Jose Giorgietti who basically never set foot outside of Argentina and Paez who amassed 22 losses often to mediocre competition. Sanders at least has a marquee win over an ATG.

 

Poor old Sanders (may he RIP). He will forever be dragged out to defend Vitali's poor level of opposition.

That he was 38, had probably boxed less than 15 pro rounds in 5 years and hadn't fought at all in over a year, when he met Vitali, seems to go over the heads of some Klitschko fans.

 

This^ is kind of the reason why (amongst others) I brought up Bean, as a VK opponent. Because, Bean had a couple of golden opportunities put his way during his career, which most would say he hadn't really deserved and still ended up being really quite nondescript. And so, it's quite something to watch fighters of his level being bigged up by a poster for all he's worth, as a means of somehow raising Vitali's stocks. (This is not uncommon though, where Vitali is concerned, to be fair).

Bean was, in the main, a survivalist when it came to his higher-end matches - awkward and negative. He didn't know how to win at the top level, but he was a frustration for any heavyweight.

However, for you to bring up the Bean/Moorer bout does make me wonder whether you've actually seen the match. Because, Moorer was absolutely dire in that fight. So bad, in fact, that Atlas walked out on him, after what had been a disaster of a camp and what would be a truly awful performance by Moorer.

To add more dung to the pile, Bean put on an even worse showing than Moorer - still managing to lose (the scorecards belie the reality of his part in that non-event).

Holyfield beat Bean by a wide decision. It wasn't pretty but, other than perhaps surprising a few people (that he'd survived) - it wasn't any kind of a triumph for Bean. Like I suggest, he knew how to survive; just not how to win.

And, sure - Vitali was the only one of Bean's opponents to stop him. But... ...so what?

It was Vaughn Bean - and the stoppage was really not impressive.

 

So what? He didn't dominate any of them easily, all these fights were long.

He lost to Giorgietti by DQ, I haven't seen the fight but I doubt he lost it because he was worse fighter throughout the fight.

You mentioned Tubbs, not me. Sanders was almost 40 when he faced Vitali, try to be more objective.

 

Ahem. With respect, that's wrong:

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Sure, so he did. Seems to me that there's a much better chance of Bonavena losing by DQ than for Vitali's shoulder to disintegrate, which invariably happens every time he's in a fantasy H2H.

Some other guy mentioned Tubbs iwith regard to Sanders. I agree that wasn't the best version of Sanders. I still bet he'd lump up Bonavena.[/QUOTE]

 

Yeah, my bad. I forgot that Hide fight was very short. Sorry for that.

That's fair, because I don't understand why people keep mentioning it either. I only mentioned Byrd's fight to say that Vitali didn't dominate him as some people imply he would against smaller fighters. I don't use injury as an argument for Frazier though, which is ridiculous.

I already said it'd be very tough fight for both fighters. I don't think that Frazier would simply walk through Vitali, he was way too good for that. I'm not the one who thinks it's unreasonable to give both fighters fair chances.

Nobody ever dominated Bonavena and I don't expect past prime Sanders to do that. Maybe he'd beat him, but I don't think it's a given (or even most likely scenario).

Frazier's resume doesn't end up at Bonavena though, you can't deny that Joe beat far better fighters than Vitali.

 

Well clearly Frazier has the Ali win and that's about as good as it gets at HW. I just feel that here you have two fighters that win on work rate and accumulative damage. One may be better P4P but the other is much much bigger with a similar workrate. In addition the big guy has a reputation of barely losing rounds in fights. That's why I feel Vits is a shoo-in to win. That said, it's all opinion and I think I'll end my participation here. Ta, mate.