Anyone here has Jack Johnson inside the Top 10 list ??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012.


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  1. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Anyone here ?

    I noticed that very few people has Johnson in their Top 10 HW ATG list.


    And now I´m just curious to know how many around here rate him inside the Top 10....
    Vote in poll, please :good.
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He's not in mine, but I have no problem seeing him on anyone elses.
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #2
  3. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My list is always changing, the order......especially after the top 5, but Johnson, Dempsey and Tyson are always in the same places, 8-10......
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    #3
  4. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Definitely. His dominance and impact can not be denied. The more and more I read on Dempsey and putting him in the top 10 however, has become harder and harder.
     
    turbotime, Aug 15, 2012
    turbotime, Aug 15, 2012
    #4
  5. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I usually have Johnson in my top-10. Tough guy to defeat in unambigous fashion, and a top boxer for a long period. Could be argued outside the top ten, could be argued top three.
     
    guilalah, Aug 15, 2012
    guilalah, Aug 15, 2012
    #5
  6. MrBumboclart

    MrBumboclart Active Member Full Member

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    Whats your top 10?


    And as for the question - yes I have Johnson in there. I think the Klitschkos and Jeffries miss it and I DO NOT think Holyfield deserves a place in there.
     
    MrBumboclart, Aug 15, 2012
    MrBumboclart, Aug 15, 2012
    #6
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ali, Louis

    Marciano

    Lewis, Frazier, Holmes, Liston

    Tyson, Wills, Foreman,
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #7
  8. turbotime

    turbotime Hall Of Famer Full Member

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    Needs more Holyfield :yep
     
    turbotime, Aug 15, 2012
    turbotime, Aug 15, 2012
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Holyfield at 8-14 is OK by me. The differences aren't big here, I don't really care tbh.
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #9
  10. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My new list would be like this:

    1- Louis
    2- Ali
    3- Holmes
    4- Marciano
    5- Lewis
    6- Foreman
    7- Frazier
    8- Holyfield
    9- Johnson
    10-Dempsey

    Tyson would be the #11......Johnson is my number 9. I´m happy with it.

    I can´t rate Ali higher than Louis anymore when Louis had that insane dominance, I give a lot of value to this, and IMO Louis was the most skilled HW ever.
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    #10
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Save me Joe Louis! Save me Joe Louis!
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't think there has ever been a better fighter than Joe Louis, at any weight, but I do think that the times make the man.

    Foreman, Frazier, Liston.

    That's no ****ing joke. I don't know if many fighters at any weight have more top 12 scalps to their name, only the real quill, and he's got two of these guys twice, plus a legitimate raft of other cracking contenders. Louis can't compete for resume at the end of the day.
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #12
  13. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That´s the thing, we can´t really blame Louis....
    I´ll say something perhaps controversial now, but IMO the times make the resume also, to an extent, you know......Louis was unlucky IMO in this aspect (not having a guy like Frazier or Foreman to face in his time).

    edit- but tbh maybe I´m biased since I love too much Louis, I admit....
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Aug 15, 2012
    #13
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I have him in my top 5.

    In terms of depth of resume, he is behind only Louis and Ali.
     
    janitor, Aug 15, 2012
    janitor, Aug 15, 2012
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But it is not a matter of assigning blame. It is a matter of assimilating the information available and processing it into new information. "Blame" and "fair" have nothing to do with it.

    You call Louis unlucky not to have faced someone like Frazier - but Frazier might have destroyed him. It's not what I think would have happened and I'd guess not what you think would happen...but Frazier is good enough that the possibility can't be ruled out. Ali on the other hand proved that he could beat Joe Frazier. Things get more complicated then because Frazier likely wasn't as good as he was when he beat Ali, but still.

    Additionally, Joe's superiority in longevity isn't all it's cracked up to be.

    Ali beat his first significant HW in 1963. He beat his last in in 1977 or 1978 depending upon how you feel about Spinks. That is a space of 14 or 15 years during which he organised an incredible resume.

    Meanwhile, Louis took his first meaningful scalp in 1935 and his last in '51. That is 16 years.

    So the difference is one or two years only.

    But Ali, famously, had the longer spell out - if you want to talk about assigning blame, that was some ridiculous **** right there...

    Louis was unquesitonably the greater champion, perhaps the greatest champion, but just as Louis was robbed of the opportunity to beat Frazier or Liston, so was Ali robbed of the opportunity to reign undefeated over the greatest era in HW history.

    Neither is that relevant.

    Bottom line speaks loudest.
     
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    McGrain, Aug 15, 2012
    #15
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