Anyone on Wilder's resume Liston couldn't beat and anyone on Liston’s resume Wilder couldn't beat

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Aug 13, 2025.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Let's just count the wins for each fighter. So is there anyone Liston beat that Wilder couldn't and anyone Wilder beat that Liston couldn't?
     
  2. Maginot

    Maginot Member banned Full Member

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    I do not think Wilder has the talent to hang with Nino Valdes. Nino was very fluid and had great KO power.

    Both could KO each other but my guess is Nino gets him first.

    Other than that, i really do not see much to choose from.
     
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  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sonny Liston fought 2 men in 54 pro fights who weighed 220+.
    Sonny Liston fought 30 men in 54 pro fights who weighed 200 pounds or less.

    By comparison

    Deontay Wilder fought 40 men in 49 pro fights who weighed 220+
    Deontay Wilder fought 0 men in 49 pro fights who weighed 200 pounds or less.

    Sonny Liston lost to Marty Marshall, who weighed 180 pounds. Deontay Wilder lost to Zhilai Zhang, who weighed 282 pounds (a 101-pound difference).

    Deontay Wilder knocks out everyone Sonny Liston fought except for Cassius Clay. So, Wilder suffers two losses in 56 fights. (And doesn't quit in either fight against Clay, like Liston did.)

    Those guys who fought Liston never saw anything like Wilder when he was rolling. Hell, against 30 guys under 200 pounds, Wilder probably kills someone. (He certainly wouldn't lose to any, let alone two of them.)

    Sonny Liston loses to Fury three times, Zhang, Parker, Ortiz twice, Helenius ... at minimum.

    So, Liston suffers at least eight losses ...

    And Liston vs. Breazeale is a toss-up. Liston never fought a young, giant 255-pound highly rated contender like that. He just didn't. Ever.

    And Liston is pick-em against Duhaupas, Arreola, and maybe a few more.

    Those guys all rarely lost to smallish heavyweights, which a 6'1", 200-220 pound Liston was.

    Sonny wasn't walking in and bowling over anyone, like he did with folks like Albert Westphal.

    Hell, Sergei Liakhovich, who was convulsing on the floor in one round against Wilder, went 10 rounds with Andy Ruiz after that (and arguably beat Ruiz on points).

    Against Wilder's opponents, Liston suffers double-digit losses. And not 10. Closer to 15.

    Those guys Wilder had to fight just didn't lose a lot of fights to smallish heavyweights.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2025
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think both men beat the other’s victims and in most cases convincingly. I know most will disagree but I can see Luis Ortiz as being a potentially problematic opponent for Liston. He was a 6’4” 240 lb southpaw with an iron chin and with a ton of power in both hands. Win or lose Sonny isn’t just walking over a guy like that the way he did Roy Harris
     
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  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sonny Liston never fought anyone like Dominic Breazeale (a 255-pound Olympian) in his career, let alone Wilder.

    The person in for a huge shock in this scenario is Sonny Liston.

    If Sonny's opponents went from 2 opponents over 220 to 40 opponents over 220, everything changes for Liston.

    Liston was considered a beast at heavyweight back then. But nearly all his opponents would be super middleweights today, who dry out and bulk up to the 180s-190s when the bell rings.
     
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  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Possibly
     
  7. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I doubt Kabayel would weigh any more than Liston were he in shape and I'd pick him over everybody Wilder has beaten. For whatever reason the big heavies of this era have lost to a lot of smaller heavies/cruiserweights.
     
  8. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agit Kayabel hasn't fought anyone who weighed 200 pounds or less, either.

    This isn't about trying to find modern fighters who might shrink down to Liston's weight if they dried out ... it's about Liston.

    Sonny Liston had 56 fights. The vast majority were against guys who weighed below 200 pounds. Only two weighed 220+

    Liston would have to learn to fight like Usyk to compete. He isn't doing that, IMO.

    This era wouldn't suit him.
     
  9. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 MONZON VS HAGLER 2025 banned Full Member

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    This
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No, and probably no again.
     
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  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Liston wouldn't beat everyone Widler beat and then beat Luis Ortiz twice without losing. That's way too tall of an ask.
     
  12. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Usyk would box Wilders face off with ease though. Probably easier than he would Liston. Wilder is less of a threat than Liston all things considered, he doesn't even weigh more than Liston normally. Taller, faster, more power but doesn't have half the ability, the coordination and Liston already had enough KO power and a telephone pole of a jab. Pillowfisted Cunningham would have competed in the top 10 if he faced others besides Fury. His boxing ability is undermined, Liston isn't obsolete. He had power, solid fundamentals, good defense on the inside and his head movement would be average just like it was back then, there are much worse defensive fighters than Liston today because they rely on size and power, but Liston had no problems taking it to the bigger taller Gerhard Zech
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2025
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  13. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Maybe Roy Harris walks over Wilder
     
  14. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Lots of people think 5'11 218 pound Mike Tyson would be dominant in this era. Why not Liston who was 6'1 215 pounds
     
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  15. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Would Wilder beat everyone Liston beat?