Anyone think The 1940's Heavies Were On A Par With The 1970's?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Apr 15, 2015.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm not responsible for the Ring ratings and though I took my examples from their rankings I did not include Wepner even though he was rated at some point in 3 different years.
    That should tell you something about my opinion of Old Chuck's abilities.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    After a quick perusal yours looks an excellent list
    that may match the quality of the 70's or at least not be so far behind it as one might have imagined.
    I'll do a bit of digging and get back to you.
    Thanks for taking the time to produce a list ,something which no one else did .Perhaps they were too busy arguing the merits of Chuck Wepner:think?
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, it wasn't aimed at you or your list.
    People discussing the merits of Wepner v Baer or whatever, or the merits of the 70s HWs in general naming Wepner, I thought I'd point out that actually Wepner was an anomaly in his own era ... his rating being dubious
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree entirely.:good I think King had a bit to do with Chuck's elevation in the rankings.
    I read a story that King owed the Jersey Heavies a big sum of money and that it was vital for " his health ," that the Ali v Wepner fight came off. I've no idea if it is true but the source was Jack Newfield and he is generally pretty reliable imo.
     
  5. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just read this, post wasn't accusing you of any agenda. I just interpreted the op to mean that the fighter's best years occurred in said decade. As long as the criteria is if they had a single bout or more in either decade their eligible, then that is fine.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  7. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks.

    I tried to do as objective a pair of lists as possible.

    "may match the quality of the '70's or at least not be so far behind it as one might have imagined."

    WWII devastated European boxing, I think, but in the US the impact of the Great Depression and the falling of the color line made the 1940's actually a very strong era for boxing in my opinion.
     
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "King owed the Jersey Heavies a big sum of money and that it was vital for 'his health' that the Ali v Wepner fight came off"

    I suppose a nasty fellow, but one looking after the best interests of boxing, might have wished for the fight not to have come off.
     
  9. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No way, not even close.
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Michael Dokes beat Jimmy Young on the Holmes-Shavers II undercard. Ocasio beat Young twice. Mercado knocked out the undefeated Trevor Berbick and only lost to Weaver and Tate. Jeff Merritt destroyed Terrell.


    01. Muhammad Ali
    02. George Foreman
    03. Joe Frazier
    04. Larry Holmes
    05. Ken Norton
    06. Jerry Quarry
    07. Ron Lyle
    08. Oscar Bonavena
    09. Earnie Shavers
    10. Jimmy Young
    11. Joe Bugner
    12. Leon Spinks
    13. John Tate
    14. Mike Weaver
    15. Gerrie Coetzee
    16. Jimmy Ellis
    17. Floyd Patterson
    18. Michael Dokes (on the rise the last three years, beat Young)
    19. Gerry C00ney (on the rise the last three years, defeated Lopez)
    20. Kallie Knoetze - destroyed Bobick and Schutte, lost to Tate and Coetzee, very brief run

    If you want more:

    21. Eddie “The Animal” Lopez (on the rise, only close losses to Tate and C00ney)

    22. Bernardo Mercado (on the rise, knocked out fellow rising contender Trevor Berbick, only lost to Weaver and Tate)

    23. Ossie Ocasio – (on the rise, two wins over Young

    24. Henry Clark - Beat Mac Foster, Jeff Merritt and Roy “Tiger” Williams (and was ranked by everyone except RING apparently) before losing to Shavers in what amounted to two eliminators

    25. Duane Bobick - he really belongs down here somewhere
    26. George Chuvalo
    27. Howard Smith
    28. Jeff Merritt – destroyed Terrell in one round, stopped Stander, edged Tiger Williams and Henry Clark
    29. Mike Schutte
    30. Mac Foster - only notable win in the decade came against ancient Zora Folley

    After that:

    31. Leroy Jones (on the rise)
    32. Alfredo Evangelista
    33. Stan Ward
    34. Lorenzo Zanon (had Evangelista's number, but that's about it)
    35. Randy Stephens
    36. Johnny Boudreaux
    37. Scott Ledoux
    38. Alfio Righetti
    39. Boone Kirkman
    40. Jorge Luis Garcia (based only on what he accomplished in 1970 - was nothing after)

    Honorable Mention: Pedro Lovell (drew with Leroy Jones, lost to Norton and Weaver, then the movie "Rocky" came out - he played Spider Rico - and he retired to star in films.:good)
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Every poster is free to put his own names forward.
    But thank you, it is rare for a poster to even hint that they may have misinterpreted anything . My respects :good
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    :huh:huh:huh

    How much do we owe you for those five words?
     
  13. tommytheduke

    tommytheduke Active Member Full Member

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    1- Mid-to-late 1960's - Early-to-mid 1970's
    2- Late 80s - Mid-to-late 90s
    3- Bum of the Month Club
    4- 1946-1955
    5- 1956-1962
    6- 1975 - early-to-mid 1980s
    7- 2000-2010s
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Would you care to explain to the others [not to me god forbid!,.

    Why you are including/ mentioning dates outside these parameters? I'm ****ed right now, so maybe I'm missing something?
     
  15. Good Cop

    Good Cop Member Full Member

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    The 40's was a very strong era for boxing, and would've been even better if not for WWII. There were more great trainers, a deeper talent pool, and fighters were more active. The 1970's bases its image of being a golden age of Heavyweight boxing off of a few top-heavy names making superfights against each other. There was a lack of depth that was already manifesting itself as boxing participation was down significantly from the 20's-40's.

    The 1960's and 1970's had about half as many fights as the 40's, and significantly less than today. It suffered from a continued domestic decline and the global scene hadn't yet matured enough to compensate. There were some notable exceptions on an individual level. Still, if we're measuring overall health of the sport, that time period wasn't the peak- it was the trough. People forget how much the sport needed a superstar like Mr. Ali to cling to when he rose to prominence.

    Domestic declines since then have been offset by the development of the sport on a global level.