Anyone think The 1940's Heavies Were On A Par With The 1970's?

I think Jose Luis Garcia deserved his ratings.

He had only lost to a couple of top light-heavies,

before moving up and KO'ing Norton in 1970. That Norton KO would loom larger and larger over the next few years.

He won his fights up to Terrell, and while most were at best trial horses, a couple probably helped him, like Lovell, a decent fighter with a good record,

and especially big Al Jones, who had gone undefeated for eight years prior to losing to Garcia in 1972. I remember that Jones was in the Boxing Illustrated rankings, and think he was also in the WBA or WBC ratings if my memory isn't failing me.

Jones had fought some decent names during his run, drawing with an old Folley, KO'ing an old Cleveland Williams, and beating Henry Clark.

That was a good win for Garcia.

 

I added an even 50 from the 1970s, because I'm a dork.

01. Muhammad Ali
02. George Foreman
03. Joe Frazier
04. Larry Holmes
05. Ken Norton
06. Jerry Quarry
07. Ron Lyle
08. Oscar Bonavena
09. Earnie Shavers
10. Jimmy Young
11. Joe Bugner
12. Leon Spinks
13. John Tate
14. Mike Weaver
15. Gerrie Coetzee
16. Jimmy Ellis
17. Floyd Patterson
18. Michael Dokes (on the rise the last three years, beat Young)
19. Gerry C00ney (on the rise the last three years, defeated Lopez)
20. Kallie Knoetze (destroyed Bobick and Schutte, lost to Tate and Coetzee, very brief run)
21. Eddie “The Animal” Lopez (on the rise, only close losses to Tate and C00ney)
22. Bernardo Mercado (on the rise, knocked out fellow rising contender Trevor Berbick, only lost to Weaver and Tate)
23. Ossie Ocasio (on the rise, two wins over Young
24. Henry Clark (beat Mac Foster, Jeff Merritt and Roy “Tiger” Williams and was ranked by everyone except RING apparently before losing to Shavers in what amounted to two eliminators)
25. Duane Bobick - he really belongs down here somewhere
26. George Chuvalo
27. Howard Smith
28. Jeff Merritt (destroyed Terrell in one round, stopped Stander, edged Tiger Williams and Henry Clark)
29. Mike Schutte
30. Mac Foster (only notable win in the decade came against ancient Zora Folley)
31. Leroy Jones (on the rise)
32. Alfredo Evangelista
33. Stan Ward
34. Lorenzo Zanon (had Evangelista's number, but that's about it)
35. Randy Stephens
36. Johnny Boudreaux
37. Scott Ledoux
38. Alfio Righetti
39. Boone Kirkman
40. Jorge Luis Garcia (based only on what he accomplished in 1970 - was nothing after)
41. Gregorio Peralta (was still good enough to fight Foreman and Lyle twice in the 70s and give them hell)
42. Larry Middleton
43. Ron Stander
44. Pedro Lovell
45. Richard Dunn
46. Roy “Tiger” Williams
47. John L. Gardner
48. John Dino Denis
49. Lucien Rodriquez
50. Joe “King” Roman

I'll work on the 40s later.

 

:rofl

True.

 

Mendoza View Post
Wepner to be in the top ten from 1973-1975? Three years? This shows a lack of depth. The 70's had good talent at the top, but perhaps not at the bottom.

I would pick today's #10 man Tony Thompson, or #9 man Ruslan Chagaev to easy defeat Wepner.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point. There is a difference between elite talent at the top and depth among the top ten.

1 ) For openers I used the mid 1960's which is not in the thread. From the mid 60's to the mid 70's, heavyweight boxing was full of hall of fame fighters, and no less than 3 men who most rank inside the top 12 of all time.

2 ) "The 70's had good talent at the top, but perhaps not at the bottom." I'll stand on this point. The talent at the top however was excellent.

 

In the 1940's boxing was, along with baseball, the biggest sport in America, and next to soccer maybe, in the world. Everyone who was an athlete and tough wanted to make it as a boxer. There was a decline in the 1960's that continued into the 1970''s. Also Cuba, the entire Soviet Union, and all the communist block countires would not let their fighters turn pro of leave their countries to do so in the 1970's, which huurt the sport. The guys from the 1970's are better known though being televised and promoted more, but 1940's fighters were better class.

 

Foxy 01

The reference to Conn came in your post 161

"I would confidently say that the first dozen guys you have listed in the '70's would beat Conn with ease."

Those dozen were

Joe Frazier
Muhammad Ali
George Foreman
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry
Mac Foster
Jimmy Ellis
Ron Lyle
Floyd Patterson
Ken Norton
Joe Bugner
Jimmy Young

Actually, I think Conn has a very good shot at having a winning record against this group.

Ellis--I have doubts Ellis was as good as Conn to begin with, but his best days were gone by the 70's.

Quarry--He occasionally looked good against big, slow moving guys, but getting outpointed by Machen and Ellis, and fighting even with a slipping Patterson? I think Conn outpoints him.

Bonavena--A guy Ellis had no trouble outpointing. Tough but tended to lose decisions. I think Conn outspeeds him.

Mac Foster--never beat a good fighter who wasn't washed up. I like Conn to handle him. A plodder like Louis, but w/o Louis hand speed and combination abilities.

Floyd Patterson--even at his best, Patterson might have had trouble with Conn, but in the '70's he was far from at his best. He did outpoint a Bonavena with a hurt hand in the 70's, but I think the Conn of 1941 would have been too much.

Jimmy Young--Conn might have flopped against Louis in 1946, but what about losing to Neumann and twice to Ocasio? Proved he could handle big guys who were either slow--Lyle--or lacked stamina--Foreman, but is most noteworthy for losing close ones. His losses to Ocasio indicate to me that a guy with speed and quick hands troubled him more than size and punching power. I rate him a toss-up with Conn.

Lyle--Another big, lumbering fellow. His performances against Quarry and Young show a good boxer with speed could handle him.

Bugner--size would have to win for him. Just a fairly ordinary fighter.

Foreman--I would have to favor him heavily, but Conn might have an outside chance if his movement keeps him away until stamina becomes an issue.

Norton--seems to have the style to handle Conn. But then seemed to have the style to handle Young, but that fight was close and controversial. I have to go with Norton because of size.

Ali and Frazier--I don't see Conn having any real chance.

 

Really fantastic breakdown and can't disagree with any of it.

Ali would beat Conn but it wouldn't be pretty. I think Frazier and Norton have the best stylistic advantage.

And I think the Foreman that lost to Young, would have some serious trouble against Conn. And Foreman at his best, would still have some trouble, and probably have to grind him down like Peralta.