Archie Moore’s heavyweight record

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Feb 18, 2020.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He faced Moore as a LHW. So that’s deceiving. He also beat several Charles opponents that beat him. The other three people he lost to were Ali Marciano and Patterson and the losses all came over the age of 38. So no he wasn’t 0-6 but 0-3 against belt holders but they happened to be amazing belt holders when he was an old man.
    That being said I don’t think he beats Louis or Liston but he beats some other champs at his best.
     
  2. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bivins was a light heavy in their fights I thought
     
  3. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Timing is everything in life. Saying he wasn’t good enough to be heavyweight champion seems like an unfair assessment. Moore merely got his title shot a few years too late. Moore by 1955 although still good enough to be the number 1 heavyweight contender for the title had declined a lot as a fighter in just to 2-3 years. Imagine if Luis Ortiz got a title shot in 2015-2016 instead of in 2018. His chances of becoming a champion would’ve been much better.

    Also, Moore lost against Charles when they were both light heavyweights in the late 1940’s and both Valdes and Johnson, who beat Charles in the 50’s both lost to Moore.

    In the late 40’s to early 50’s Moore had the opportunity to fight Joe Louis, but had too much respect for Louis and didn’t want to be the one to retire Louis, who wasn’t the fighter he used to be, so he turned down the offer.

    Against Patterson Moore was 40 years old and had declined even more as a fighter, since the Marciano fight and wasn’t fighting and beating top heavyweight contenders anymore because he couldn’t.

    Against Ali Moore was almost 50 and had been a professional for almost 30 years, so he had nothing left as a fighter.

    As for Liston Moore just like with his Ali would’ve been almost 50 and too old to beat Liston.

    Just to put some perspective in Moore’s first heavyweight title opportunity he was 39 and few months from 40 and put up a good fight, but lost to one of the most dominant champions in the division’s history.

    Here are a few similar examples.

    Ali himself at 38 years old tried challenging for a title against a very dominant champion in Holmes and it didn’t work out well for him and he was stopped.

    Liston at 39 years challenged for the North American title against Leotis Martin, but got stopped.

    Holmes also tried challenging a dominant champion in Mike Tyson at 38 years old and was also stopped.
     
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  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No. They were HW.
     
  5. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    hmmm...it can be confusing when guys who fight at both weights fight. oh well
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Bit of a Gobshite Full Member

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    Apart from Valdez and Johnson, there's noone who Moore beat who proved themselves better than Charles. And Ezz was past it for both of those, and he still nearly beat Johnson.
     
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  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ezzard was a hell of a HW/LHW fighter in general. It’s arguable Moore’s record at HW is better then Charles record. Charles just had Moore’s number.
     
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  8. sweetsci

    sweetsci Active Member Full Member

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    What amazes me was that Moore, at the end of his career going in to the Clay fight, was ranked #6 by the WBA and #5 by Ring.
     
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  9. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    wow, never heard that before, but I'm not surprised
     
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  10. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Archie Moore is a top 3-5 p4p all time great. In addition to an absolutely incredible career at both light heavy and heavy, the dude holds the all time record for most knockouts - a record that will probably never be broken.
     
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  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Moore once said that the man he feared more than anyone else was Joe Louis.
     
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  12. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he also was a good middleweight too, beating several of the best Murderer's Row lot like Cocoa Kid, Holman Williams, Jack Chase, and Bert Lytell
     
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  13. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    he was better than Louis
     
  14. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    On a p4p level I agree. Head to head that would be a dangerous match for Moore though and he certainly seemed to think so himself
     
  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Think he was 45 or 46 lol
     


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