Archie Moore had 98 fights with ranked contenders. Anyone with more?

Spotless human being as far as I can tell and a perfect fighter for fan and scientist.

 

Yeah, Fritzie was one of those oldtimers, who had loads of fights against top-10 opponents... though a long way behind Rosenbloom, who's a clear #1 in this category.

 

Marvin Johnson had been viciously knocked out twice by Saad Muhammad and once by Mustafa Muhammad. He was an aggressive fighter with a poor defense . He was an old 27 who did regain a title but lets be specific against who ... Leslie Stewart ? Second tier competition .. And how'd the immediate rematch go ?

Yaqi Lopez was twice brutally KOed by Saad, pounded by James Scott, lost to Bennett, Galindez and Conteh .. he was a tough contender , the type off fighter Moore flattened dozens of times in his career ..

Mustafa was a head case, weight drained and lost a decision .. he had to lose c lose to thirty pounds in a short window .. simply facts ..

Qwai was his big win at 175 and it was a clever decision but not a dominate win ... as good as Qwai was, he had about twenty fights ...

I simply don't see any argument for Spinks as the best based on that resume .. many men fought much better competition and to me track record matters ..

 

Spinks is a lock for Top-5, IMO - But, I rate Moore ahead of him.

 

Yes back in Spinks’ day, top fighters fought each other. Doesn’t mean they were washed up because they had lost a few or been KO’d.

Most of the people Archie Moore, Bob Foster, Ezzard Charles, Billy Conn, Gene Tunney and Harry Greb beat as their notable victories had also lost, and most had been stopped before too. So what? Doesn’t make them not good wins.

Marvin was far from washed up. Again, one year earlier he was champion and five years later he was still a championship-level fighter (as evidenced by the fact that he won the title again).

Yaqui had been stopped and beaten but he’s still one helluva fighter. Getting KO’d didn’t make him suddenly not good. Watch the film with Spinks and tell me he had nothing left.

EMM was one of the top guys in the top era of the light heavyweight divisions and was still more than viable when Spinks fought him. And Michael won. Same with Qawi.

Now can you tell me none of Archie’s or Ezzard’s top wins (or those of other light heavyewight greats) weren’t struggling to make weight? Of course you can’t because we didn’t have that level of camp reporting at their times. That they weren’t known as ‘head cases’ by people who really knew the game at that time? That hadn’t previously lost or been KO’d — the records speak for themselves.

Spinks’ resume is pretty clear. He more than cleaned out his division.

 

Solid point

 

Thats a crazy stat.

 

He also barely beat Eddie Davis

I clearly remember watching that fight live and Eddie nullified Spink's offense while getting inside and making it ultra competitive.

He also used an Archie Moore like crab like defense

I have to assume Moore was a better version of Eddie Davis

 

Yes and most every champion has a few close fights.

Archie got knocked down four times by Yvonne Durrell. I’m sure Spinks hit harder and was a better fighter all-around that Durrell. And was knocked out in one round by Leonard Morrow (12-2-1 at the time, while Archie was past fight 100 and nowhere near slowing down). It happens.

Doesn’t make Moore not great, anymore than Spinks having a tough title defense makes him less than great.

 

I don't know anyone arguing that Spinks was not a great fighter but that he was not the all time best at 175 with such a thin resume. Moore was in his mid forties for the Durell fights .. Michael Spinks fought four (4) real tests at 175, period. A talented trial horse in Lopez who suffered many prior beatings, a very good offensive fighter who had suffered several prior devastating KO losses in Johnson, a weight drained Mustafa in a still very competitive fight till Eddie faded and a safety first decision over Qwai .. he was an Olympic gold medalist, he was well managed, he was well paid and did not have to grab fights for short money along the way to pay his rent like fighters such as Charles and Moore did endlessly in their careers .. if this to you qualifies as all time greatest fighter, that's your choice but I say he didn't come close to being tested enough to support the claim.

 

Perhaps I should explain a bit better: I’m talking a mix of resume and head to head, with an emphasis on the latter. I think if everybody fought everybody in a round robin, he’d come out on top.

What are your top 10 at 175? Are you saying he’s not one of the top 10? Not one of the top 5? And what criteria do you use?

We can go back and forth on his ‘four fights’ that seem to be all you want to count — how many did Joe Louis have out of all his defenses that you dismiss? — but he cleaned out a division.

How is being an Olympic champion a knock on a fighter? It’s not like he ducked anyone. He didn’t have a manager who was keeping him from challenges — he was fighting top guys by his 14th fight (and that’s if you discount Ramon Ranquillo, who was coming off a KO of Mike Rossman, and Murray Sutherland before that). So he had a manger … who didn’t? He was not coddled.

Yaqui Lopez went tooth and nail with Matthew Saad Muhammad his immediate previous fight. Yes he got KO’d, but watch the fight as I said and tell me he was washed. It just ain’t so. So he boxed Qawi … since when is that a knock on a fighter — he fought a disciplined fight to unify the belts and outclassed the other ‘best’ fighter in the division (is Willie Pep not a great fighter because he fought ‘safety first’ and didn’t go toe-to-toe with everyone?). Eddie Mustafa was about as dangerous and skilled as anyone you’ll find but you don’t want to count the win because you say he was less than 100% because he made weight — again I ask, do you think every fight everyone you consider an ATG from earlier eras the other guy made weight easily because people didn’t report on it the same way — discount Ray Robinson’s crowning stoppage of LaMotta because Jake was always right on the edge of making or not making 160? I can go on and on.

Spinks dominated and cleaned out a division starting before he was even a champion by taking out top guys like Johnson and Yaqui and with more ease than anyone had handled them. There’s not a stone left unturned in the 175-pound division during his dominant run. And watch him and tell me how he doesn’t match up with the best of all time.

We disagree, but if you want to keep knocking my pick let’s see how you rank ‘em.

 

I was given the numbers by Henry Hascup, who I believe has access to month-by-month rankings because of his extensive magazine collection. Unfortunately, I can't fill in the blanks on who you might of missed. I had the same issue when I was researching Midget Wolgast where I used the annual rankings and came out with a number significantly smaller than Hascup's.

 

Archie Moore was a great man and fighter, I am glad I met him in December 1969.

 

Virgil Hill had bigger light heavyweight wins and cleaned out the division .. where do you rate him ? I think your claim is absurd. Period.