Archie Moore vs Cleveland Williams

your argument falls to pieces when pointed out that Machen did not Beat Williams.

Yes because the first thing I look at is someone's record when assessing their speed.

People can watch film and see for themselves Williams was a deceptively quick and powerful boxer. My question for you is this, why was he dubbed the big cat if not for his speed?

 

watch film of him against who? Jim Wiley and Tod Herring who never scored an elite win in their lives? Billy Daniels who lost as many as he won? Or was it the losing efforts he had against everyone else we have him on film against? Because you do realize that matchmaking 101 is to make your fighter look better than he is by matching him soft. Because his supposed speed and supposed power never beat anyone of note. Its as simple as that. Go ahead and tell me who these fighters are that he looks so fast against? You cant. And of course the old fall back is that “well he got shot and was never the same” bull****. He didnt fight any different after he was shot than he did before and he never beat anyone of note before he was shot anyway. I guess its just a fantastic coincidence that he loses every time he ups his competition. Its just a coincidence that every fighter he fought who was ranked when he fought them he not only couldnt knockout despite his supposedly terrific speed and power but he couldnt even beat them and thats despite not just his speed and power but also being huge for the era. Lol. It defies belief the extremes to which some will go to try to build up these cult figures whose resumes are paper thin.

 

Machen remarked that he was significantly faster than Liston.I would not call him speedy but imo ,neither was he slow as he has been referred to here. Nobody on this thread has suggested he had terrific speed.

 

Normally see things fairly similar to yourself but I'm 100% with Klompton on this one, Williams was a poor man's Razor Ruddock.

 

They called him 'Big Cat' because he was a big man who liked to sit on the roof of people's cars. That's what led to him being shot. He brought it on himself.

 

Cause its fun.

 

That's what Klompton and Choklab would have you believe

 

The Herring fight was post 357 magnum in the stomach.You think he was the same pre ,and post gunshot?
Ali didn't, neither did Terrell.
He had a bullet lodged in his hip and restricted mobility.
"According to the police report Williams resisted arrest, and the officer's .357 magnum revolver went off during an ensuing struggle, hitting Williams in the stomach and lodging in his right hip. Williams had to undergo four operations in the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney. The right kidney had to be removed in June 1965. Doctors could not extract the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some of the hip's muscles, he also lost of over 10 feet (3.0 m) of his small intestine, and sustained nerve damage which affected his left leg above the knee and caused it to atrophy as a result."

And its your contention that all this did not adversely affect his subsequent performances?

It defies belief that whenever his name is mentioned you come roaring back onto this Forum ready to shout at all and sundry that he was CRAP!
Eddie Machen said he was significantly faster than Liston
Liston and Terrell both stated he was a huge puncher, but let's ignore them and accept your vitriol.
That's the deal isn't it?

 

I've noticed whenever you ask Klompton a question he goes on a huge rant and answers anything BUT the question but apparently he can do that because "he's seen more film than any of us."

 

He is a good poster but suffers a little from the" Perry syndrome ,"imo.

 

Poor man's Ruddock my ass. He was undeniably a much better boxer, more agile, and more athletic than Ruddock. Imo he was also faster and more powerful. He also had more than one punch in his arsenal.

 

My point was not to assess who would come out on top, it was to show that Williams was not a poor man's Ruddock by any definition of the word.

 

Nice rant. Quite a shame it's all for naught. I'm not reading all that drivel. (next time use paragraphs.) Now answer the question you somehow managed to avoid in that essay; Why was Williams called "The Big cat"?

Oh and Actually answer the question this time instead of going on another rant to attempt to change the subject. Oh so predictable.