Archie Moore vs Cleveland Williams

Don't bother. Go watch Spinks vs. Lopez or Muhammad. WAY better use of ur time.

 

You're the only person who would say that.

 

Hey can you name these "several no names" who beat Williams?

 

Sure. Sylvester Jones, Al Jones, Al Lewis, and Jack O' Halloran. I also don't hold Mac Foster and Bob Cleroux in the highest regard. However, I don't hold these losses against Williams as they don't prove anything about Williams. The losses to Satterfield and Ali aren't usable in any argument either, considering he was green in one and shot in the other, although losses to either one would have been understandable even in his prime. The Terrell fight was close. The only losses to be legitimately held against Williams are the Liston fights, and those were no disgrace either. He gave a great account of himself.

 

I'll give you Sylvester Jones but Williams was VERY green in that fight, and it was stopped prematurely when Williams was chasing him around the ring because the promoters wanted to get on with the main event (a Marciano fight, unfortunately his opponent escapes me). Williams later knocked him out empathically.

Al Jones was not a no-name. He held wins over O'Halloran, Henry Clark, and drew with Folley (albeit a past it one).

Lewis was also a good puncher and with the exception of O'holloran, only lost to Bonavena, Ali, Martin. 3 Champions or all time contenders.

O'halloran was also a very hard puncher (Foreman rated him in the top five hardest he'd ever faced) who held wins over Henry Clark, Manuel Ramos, Rahman Ali, among others.

None were world-class of course, but certainly not no-names.

 

Okay, we'll call them fringe-contenders.

 

I'm sure the fact that Williams was 20 years old, and had just started fighting 2 years earlier without any amateur experience to speak of, and was a last minute substitute had nothing to do with this. Let's at least TRY to be fair.

 

Let’s not pretend lesser fighters didn’t beat Satterfield at similar stages. Satterfield was a great trial horse but he was a bad trial for those without the chin to handle him.

 

Satterfield was a lot more than a "trial horse". The previous year he'd flattened the 214lb #4 contender Bob Baker inside a round.

 

He was a ranked contender never really considered a threat for the title...closest he got was a title eliminator w Charles. As good as he gave he was beat by a lot men. Either that or men like John Holman and Rex Layne need to be given their due.

 

He beat Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes too, as well as a host of other fair contenders like Summerlin, Holman, Mederos, Gomez, Barone, etc.. Satterfield, though not at the top, was no joke. He was stopped by Henry and Layne, but only after dropping both. He had Charles in trouble before being stopped by him.

 

A flat out lie. Not one person beat Satterfield who was 20 or younger and hadn't been fighting for years (except Satterfield's third fight, which I think we can cut him slack for obvious reasons). Not one. Please name these "lesser fighters" who "beat Satterfield at similar stages." None exist.

Williams' chin wasn't the problem. He rushed in after he hurt Satterfield intending to finish the job afer boxing him beautifully previously. Even Satterfield praised his chin after the bout.
"he's got plenty of heart and that's the big thing. I hit him some real hard punches in the second round and he just came back" Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/510...msTGHDA4kkoOhgjXxbKfW6Ja0z5E6sKHcgwvV_TdLXYZc

"In the second round he stood up under two booming right hands from Satterfield."
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53148333/the-miami-news/

 

Harold Carter John Holman Marty Marshal Rex Layne and Clarence Henry all had around the same experience when they stepped into the ting w Satterfield and they came out with a win. No one raTes them above Cleveland. Was referring to boxing experience not necessarily age.

 

Why leave out age? Is it because it undermines your argument that 20 ISN'T far to young to be fully devoloped? In any case, let's go over the aforementioned men.

Harold Carter was 22, had been fighting since he was 14 years old, and had turned pro 3 years prior.

John Holman was 29 years old, and had turned pro nearly a DECADE earlier.

Marty Marshall was 32 years old and had also turned pro near a decade prior.

Rex Layne was 23 years old, had been boxing for a good 5-6 years, and turned pro 2 years earlier.

Clarence Henry was 26 years old, had turned pro 4 years prior, and had been boxing since he was a teenager, having had won multiple golden gloves tournament before he had turned pro.

Now let's see Williams. Williams was 20 year old, younger than everybody you listed, had turned pro 2 years earlier and had no amateaur career, much less experience than the men above, oh and he was a last second substitue who hadn't trained since his last bout.

That is not even CLOSE to "had around the same experience when they stepped into the ting w Satterfield".