Archie Moore vs. Fitz, Corbett & Burns

McCoy was tricky and a con man ,he was also involved in fixed fights.
Corbett winning this bout paved the way for a fight with champion Jeffries,so everything was to play for.
For what its worth ,Jeffries,Fitzsimmons,Sharkey,Ruhlin and the referee Charley White ,all thought the fight was won on its merits.Lets assume it was a kosher fight,McCoy is estimated to have weighed 170lbs for the bout with Corbett at, for him a heavy190lbs,does this count as a ko over a heavyweight?
ps Corbett was never floored in the 5 rounds the fight lasted and won every round.

 

I think they were both involved in fixes, but not every fight they were in was fixed and you can find claims that every fight is fixed.

Okay there's more noise than normal in this one, but is there actually a good basis for it? The wives claimed a lot, but their claims don't really stand up to scrutiny.

There were rumours before the fight, but from the reports I've seen the people who saw it thought it was legit.

Here's another interesting one while we're on alleged fixes, in 1761 William Stevens lost to George Meggs, thought to be for the Championship of England. Pretty much anything you'll ever read on it says it was a fix, but to my knowledge it all comes from the claims of a single book. I've read a decent number of news reports from then and am yet to find anything to corroborate it, and several things that contradict the narrative. I wouldn't say for sure it wasn't a fix, but I'm leaning that way on that one. I'm not making a point between them, it's just interesting to me.

 

The more I think, the less I see Corbett winning. Archie was just too experienced and tough for him, just like Fitz was.

 

The claims the Corbett v McCoy fight was fixed appear to have originated from scuttle- butt before the fight and not from the actual fight.
The first three rounds were tame, more like a glorified sparring session ,but Corbett seems to have had the edge in them ,and he certainly dominated the 4th and 5th rds,McCoy did not make any kind of a show.

 

I've got access to more reports now than when I went through them a while back, but I remember atleast one of the next day reports explicitly said it wasn't a fix, because of the stuff before hand.

I'll go through them again and see if I can find anything new.

 

Researching a bit yesterday thru newspaper accounts, I found direct quotes from Jeffries stating that he thought the fight was not on the level. He suggested that Corbett face McCoy again "on the level" to earn a title shot. In Jeffries' opinion, if it was so easy to win the first time around, it should be no problem for Corbett to win a second fight.

 

With more papers, it appears there was more question in the next day papers than I believed.

Says the fight did not look like a fake
The sun., August 31, 1900, Page 2, Image 2
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83030272/1900-08-31/ed-1/seq-2/

The referee says Corbett won legitimately.
The evening world., August 31, 1900, Page 6, Image 6
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83030193/1900-08-31/ed-1/seq-6/#date1=08/31/1900&city=&date2=08/31/1900&searchType=advanced&SearchType=prox5&sequence=0&lccn=&index=4&words=Corbett+CORBETT&proxdistance=5&county=&to_year=1900&rows=20&ortext=&from_year=1900&proxtext=corbett&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

"Fighting was on the level"
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle., August 31, 1900, Page 10, Image 10
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn83031151/1900-08-31/ed-1/seq-10/#date1=08/31/1900&city=&date2=08/31/1900&searchType=advanced&SearchType=prox5&sequence=0&lccn=&index=6&words=Corbett&proxdistance=5&county=&to_year=1900&rows=20&ortext=&from_year=1900&proxtext=corbett&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1



The New York Times, August 31 1900
Against [it being a fix] it may be said that McCoy took a needlessly severe punishment, if all was prearranged. As to his condition, there is no question that he entered the ring heavier than he has ever fought before. The weights were not announced officially, but Corbett looked to be about 190, and McCoy was hardly less than 175 pounds.

I don't see any explicit comments in The Standard Union, but it says that after "McCoy's face was puffed and swollen, and his right eye was discolored"
It also said "At the ring side there were men from Chicago, and Cincinnati, San Francisco and Denver, Stl Louis and Salt Lake City, Buffalo and Atlanta."

On the other hand
The New York Tribune called it a fake
The Brooklyn Citizen commented on peculiar betting and said "A great many seem to be of the opinion that the fight was not on the level"
Brooklyn Times Union "Corbett Won a Very Shadu Looking Bout"

 

I like Moore to beat Burns and Corbett. The best Corbett though would be the one of the early 1890's, not the one of the Fitz and Jeff fights.

Fitz and his power give him a better shot, I think, but I still pick Moore as the more likely winner.

 

The Buffalo times said it did not look like a fake. I've looked at a few of the Buffalo papers, and they seem to be the same report.

George Siler wrote for the Chicago Tribune, he said it looked suspicious, but said it was hard to tell if it was fixed or on the level, and suggested the final blow was hard enough to put McCoy out for the count, but had little doubt of Corbett's superiority.

The Cincinati Enquirer says Referee Charley White didn't doubt it was legitimate and they say no reason to disagree with him.

No explicit comment on if it is fake.
The Salt Lake herald., August 31, 1900, Image 1
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...ccoy&y=18&x=6&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

In the San Francisco Cali L. M. Houseman says it was a blatant fake (you can find that paper here, but the site isn't loading for me ATM https://cdnc.ucr.edu/ )

I don't see any explicit comment about it being a fix in The Atlanta Constitution.

 

4th rd. " the fastest infighting I have ever seen"JimJeffries."
A right to the mouth made McCoy spit blood.
"Corbett took the aggressive again.He feinted rapidly and gradually forced McCoy to the ropes where he rained blow after vicious blow onMcCoys body and head.McCoy clinched and retreated.Corbett was confident and determined ,and he dashed in with a storm of blows.Jim landed a left hook on the short ribs and a right on the jaw.As they broke away Corbett rushed in with a perfect storm of lefts and rights to the body and jaw that dazed McCoy . It is so fast that no man living can follow all the blows.Corbett has all the bst of itand rushes McCoy to an off corner punishing him badly McCoy blocked some and clinched repeatedly to save himself,his legs were shaky.
Corbett was all over him with tremendous speed rushing the Kid across the ring landing with rapid jabs ,hooks and uppercuts to both the body and head." he had received a punching that was entirely unexpected and was too fast for him to escape from .
McCoy was in trouble,staggering around and looking like he was about to be knocked out .

McCoy is very weak and clinching to save himself as the gong rings for the end of the round.I never saw greater speed thanthisand Corbett's punishing power is trenmendousI tell you ,the Kid isn't in Corbett's class.The bell just saves him.he goes staggering to his conrer with blood flowing from his mouth .Jeffries

" On a break,a left jolt to the ribs made the Kid open his mouth even wider,and he clinched again.Jim pushed him away with his right and followed with a terrific hook to the belly.It isa tremendous blow McCoy staggers,three or four steps to theleft,completely knocked out ,and ,as he falls Corbett hooks him rapidly with lefts and rights on the body and jaw.McCoy went down and out"Jeffries.
ps The figtht was to hqave been filmed ,but the light was too poor,,onSep5th 1900 The con man Lubin staged a re-enactment of the fight with the principals reprising their parts.

 

I read Corbett was floored. McCoy beat larger men. He was very good. A mobile skilled puncher who fought many times at heavyweight.

I will be busy for a while. Not sure when I can offer a more detailed reply.

 

Yeah, after some thoughts I agree with you. Burns was very tough but he was also quite skilled and had decent punch. He would definitely struggle Archie a few times.

 

No Corbett was not floored .
Though McCoy did have some success against larger men,with stoppage wins over Choynski x2 [they were probably about the same size], ,Maher,Billy Stift,and ND's with Fred Russell ,and Steve O Donnell ,
McCoy usually scaled under 170lbs.

 

I think Fitz would be too powerful for Archie, winning by KO at some point while likely being behind on the cards.

Corbett memes his way to a decision victory, throwing love taps and force less rear uppercuts while being too quick for Archie to catch. Moore never fought someone with the weaponized autism Corbett possessed

He destroys Burns, though.