Are black belts in martial arts any good in the UFC?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by mark ant, Mar 15, 2019.



  1. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

    9,318
    3,025
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 4, 2017
    Which black belts have become world champs in the MMA world and are black belts given out too easily to out of shape martial arts enthusiasts?
     
  2. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,235
    863
    Sportsbook:
    762
    Apr 1, 2005
    Best BJJ Blackbelts: Werdum, Demian Maia, & Jacare Souza are clearly the top 3, based on achievements in sport BJJ & mma. Garry Tonon & Kron Gracie are guys on the way up who fit in a similar category. The Diaz brothers are both highly regarded blackbelts, as are their buddies, Gil Melendez and Jake Shields.

    Other blackbelts who became champs and were top notch grapplers: Big Nog, Luke Rockhold (some legendary stories about this guy in the training room), BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, GSP, Shogun Rua, Chris Weidman.

    Top Judo blackbelts in MMA: Hector Lombard, Khabib, Karo Parisyan.

    Are black belts handed out too easily? Depends on your criteria. If you insist that a black belt only goes to an absolute world class killer who can tear through other black/brown belts, then you're likely to think a lot of black belts are undeserving. Personally I think rank should be award according based on a balance of factors including competition results, but also including personal maturity, overall technique/knowledge, and overall time committed to the sport.

    Although grappling is a science, even moreso than boxing, there are physical realities to consider. Plenty of grapplers have black belt level knowledge/skill, but might lose to high level purple belts in competition. This doesn't mean they're fake black belts, it could just mean that the physical ceiling imposed by finite things like tendons/muscle/ligaments is just too high to overcome.
     
    Oneirokritis and mark ant like this.
  3. don owens

    don owens Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,100
    556
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 5, 2005
    There is a problem with black belts. The concept of black belt implies a level of proficiency. It usually does not exist. Most black belts cannot defend themselves in an ordinary street situation. Most have been taught by mediocre teachers and have a totally unrealistic approach to their training. Unfortunately, over time most styles have degenerated, if they had any level to descend from initially. This is due to commercialism and other factors. In any town U.S.A. go in the first dojo you encounter and ask to watch a class. High probability that you will be vastly under impressed. An effective combative system, of any kind, must entail a thorough level of conditioning, technique training and sparring. There are other areas also. If you are allowed to watch the sparring, it is often a game of tag. The way you train is the way you do. To be proficient three things are needed 1) a good style 2) a good teacher 3) a good student (read committed). It is rare to find that in any combative art.
     
    richdanahuff and mark ant like this.
  4. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

    9,093
    6,686
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 13, 2017
    I done Shotokan for years, taught me nothing for defence, I learnt more in 6 months Boxing than I did 6 years doing Karate in terms of confidence and defence on the street. Taking shots in sparring prepares you, Karate is absolutely useless for learning about real life combat and if you pulled any of the moves I learnt on the street defending yourself, you would have everyone in stitches laughing
     
    PIRA likes this.
  5. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,235
    863
    Sportsbook:
    762
    Apr 1, 2005
    I'm with you on TMA's like TKD or karate, but I think BJJ and Judo black belts still have real world currency. Sport bjj is watering the art down, but chokes still shut off blood to the brain, whether the fighter is focused on sport competition or self-defense. And let's face it, it's ridiculously easy to take someone's back if they're untrained.

    And even the most mediocre judo black belt can easy throw a larger opponent. In the real world an ippon executed on cement or hard wood means guaranteed wheel chair for the other guy. Judo is ridiculously dangerous in a self-defense scenario.
     
    Oneirokritis likes this.
  6. don owens

    don owens Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,100
    556
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 5, 2005
    The Funny Man.....You are correct. I was referring to karate specifically. It has degenerated horribly. Judo and other forms of martial arts, I am not familiar enough to comment. As always, it depends on the student, teacher and style.
     
  7. don owens

    don owens Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,100
    556
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 5, 2005
    Birmingham, again, it depends on the three factors. Teacher, student and style. The heyday of karate was the 60's and a good portion of the 70's. The commercial success was it's downfall. A wave of black belts, not necessarily good ones, opened up schools and began to crank out black belts quickly. Often in a year or less. Balance, timing, speed, accuracy, power (generated from technique) takes years of hard work. These things are required in all combative systems. Examine your experience with Shotokan. Something had to be lacking in the above mentioned training. Most of the karate systems are not inherently flawed. It is the lack of proper training in the fundamentals that is the problem. Another problem is that the average Joe that enters a dojo expects to learn some "magic" or some secrets. Nothing works but hard work that is in alignment with sound physiological principles. If a boxer does not do what is required,.......bag work, road work, technique training, calisthenics, sparring, sparing and more sparring....(under the tutelage of a knowledgeable teacher)....then that boxer is going to be mediocre at best. Nothing magic about boxing either. The average Joe does not expect to be hit and hit hard. Therefore he is not prepared when it happens. Most dojos have a very unrealistic training program. There have been a few champion caliber black belts however. Those names that the public is familiar with.....are not the ones. The ones in the movies are also...not the ones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  8. mark ant

    mark ant Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

    9,318
    3,025
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 4, 2017
    Don`t martial artist just do forms to attain belts anyway? Isn`t it just a test of balance?
     
    Oneirokritis and The Funny Man 7 like this.
  9. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

    9,093
    6,686
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 13, 2017
    Its not how its sold, its meant to be self defence, I just find it pretty poor in combat tbh
     
  10. DONT B SCARED

    DONT B SCARED Pimpin Aint Easy Full Member

    2,537
    1,373
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 8, 2017
    There is just so many but usually black belts have more meaning depending what school and trainer you get it from,getting a BJJ black belt from say Marcelos Garcia or Renzo Gracie for example is way tougher to get then 1 of the lower rated gyms.
     
    Oneirokritis and mark ant like this.
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    62,722
    3,530
    Sportsbook:
    8
    Sep 15, 2009
    It really does depend on the gym they got it from and it's reputation for difficulty in attaining a black belt.

    I did BJJ for a year, never even got close to a blue belt.
     
  12. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

    12,515
    8,559
    Sportsbook:
    296
    Jan 7, 2014
    Many world class MMA fighters are black belts
     
    mark ant likes this.
  13. RockyMarciano

    RockyMarciano Active Member Full Member

    1,271
    364
    Sportsbook:
    1,250
    Jul 8, 2009
    I started Karate at 6 and stayed with it until I got into boxing at around 12 or so. I found it to be very useful for a few things....mainly balance and judging/closing of distance....those are very underrated. Then you add in a slap here and there...Joe Calzaghe made a career out of those exact attributes.
     
  14. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie booted Full Member

    9,093
    6,686
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 13, 2017
    A slap ??? Even my instructors that had been doing it years were ****e, all the moves, zero full contact until its street fight time..Useless unless its a hobby for kids, a bit of exercise..
     
  15. RockyMarciano

    RockyMarciano Active Member Full Member

    1,271
    364
    Sportsbook:
    1,250
    Jul 8, 2009
    I see you focused on the part of my comment that was a joke at Calzaghe's expense and ignored the valid point that I made about balance and distance. I didn't claim Karate to be the most bad ass martial art around...but you're out of your mind if you think it's completely useless. You may very well have had terrible instructors...but there are good ones out there. There are rotten boxing coaches out there too. As for no full contact fights..I had full contact point matches as a kid both in my dojo and in multiple tournaments. Different places have different styles of programs. If you were to sign up for Chuck Norris' karate program for example...you are required to participate in many BJJ techniques as well as a variety of other techniques to progress through the ranks.
     

Share This Page