Are boxers better/more skilled today?

Poor dog...it’s good in the long run though

 

I'm not going to pretend like physical ability isn't important. Physical ability is half the sport, but the other half is technical skills. Broner's mistake is in thinking he could coast on his natural physical talent. He was faster and maybe even stronger but Mikey Garcia methodically took him apart. There are a lot of examples of less physically gifted technicians making fools of physical specimens: Tunney vs Dempsey, Wilde vs Foreman, Maxim vs Carter, etc. But the same goes the other way too. Segura walked right through Calderon and Carter KO'd Griffith in 1.

I was watching a match last week. I wish I could recall who was fighting, but anyway... There was this super athletic black guy fighting what appeared to be an average Mexican dragged in off the street. The Mexican put a beating on this guy. He had the black guy hurt at least six times, and the bigger athletic dude couldn't put a dent in him. The Mexican guy was slower, looked weaker, smaller, but he was more relaxed and his form was better. His technique wasn't phenomenal, but you could tell he was more experienced and was something of a natural fighter, but no athlete. It was such a weird fight, because I told you already the little Mexican hurt the big black guy half a dozen times, but he never finished the job. He kept letting his man off the hook and in the end he lost the decision. I guess my point is that you can't train some things, like your chin is your chin. Was that my point? I don't even remember.

 

If only Ray Robinson had been Vegan.

 

Yeah, pretty much - I know it is. At least now I’m the only guy in the house trying to hump my wife’s leg
He’s a good looking pure boxer and I wanted for him to get some from a lady boxer before the neutering but one of his testicles hadn’t descended - kinda like IsaL and Shadow - and the vet said it could create problems.

 

You're talking about Ramirez-Imam right? Imam is similar to Broner in that he wasn't taught to perfect that defensive style. Meanwhile Ramirez was trained by Roach. Far less athletic, but he knew how to position himself and set up his punches without leaving too many openings.

 

James Page vs Jose Luis Lopez 1998. I was checking it out because it was on a list of recommended fights on a recent thread. Turns out it wasn't very good; so I just checked it off the list and moved on. Lopez was doing the better boxing but had no killer instinct and got outworked even though he had his man down twice. Such a frustrating thing to see. Every other round he had his man half out and ready to go but kept letting him back into the fight. Lopez lost the fight on each of the judges cards by three to five rounds, because he wouldn't punch enough.

 

Hey bud, sorry about the delay. I’ll try to answer your questions but keep in mind I’m not an expert- just a charming, good looking dude
Regarding the amateur system, I believe there was a change after the 88 Seoul olympics when Roy Jones was flagrantly robbed of the gold medal by judges in favor of the Korean fighter. The amateur system now places greater emphasis on scoring lighter punches for points rather than “effective” punches. By trying to fix one problem they created another. This is why you’ll sometimes hear trainers or commentators saying so and so has an “amateur” style. Don’t get me wrong, a strong amateur background still benefits fighters in terms of experience, foot work etc. Ward, Loma and Golovkin are 3 fighters that come to mind.
The guys that fought 20-100 rounds were pre classic style and those fights were not what we’re accustomed to seeing in the last 80 years or so. From about 1935 or so is when we’d date boxing to how we understand it now.
Having more weight classes, 20% fewer rounds in championship fights, next day weigh ins and at least 4 sanctioning bodies dramatically allows for lesser fighters to greater opportunities to be selective in who they fight and when. Modern day fighters like Canelo, Calzaghe and even Mikey Garcia might not even be able to cut it as pro fighters 50 years ago, let alone having gaudy records.
Oscar De La Hoya, for as much as a warrior as he was, could never have made it in the 15 round era.
None of this is to say that post 85 fighters aren’t great in their own right or bad ass’ or couldn’t have competed earlier -some could have - but the changes make it speculation.
Fighting more guys more often, even if they’re tomato cans, is still tougher than training camps. When sparring a guy in camp who hurts you, the sparring session is immediately stopped. In a real fight, even against a cab driver, if that cabbie clips you and your hurt he’s coming to finish you. The stakes are much higher.
Another point is that prior to 85 boxing was much more popular and televised regularly. As fans and potential boxers have drifted to other sports the “sweet science” has lost its sugar. If you want to get an idea of old timers, look at Floyd, Bernard and Toney - those guys were “old school” for having mastered the craft in an age when that was no longer the case for most fighters.

 

This. They don't call boxing the sweet science for nothing. Raw athletic ability will only get you so far at the elite level. Broner had faster hands, faster feet, and was clearly much stronger than Mikey, but Mikey made Broner pay every time he made a mistake and made Broner hesistant the throw punches. Mikey would get in range, tag Broner, make him mis, and tag him again.

Archie Moore in his late 30's was able to be the reigning 175 champ while also being able to beat several of the top 10 heavyweights at the time and even the number 1 contender Nino Valdez, who was much young and had every physical advantage. Some of these guys were 6'3" or taller and ranged from 210-230 lbs

However, this isn't just in boxing though. I remeber when Hakeem Olajuwon toyed with David Robinson, who was much bigger and a better athlete.

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However, this isn't just in boxing though. I remeber when Hakeem Olajuwon toyed with David Robinson, who was much bigger and a better athlete.

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The Hakeem Olajuwon example applies for skills in that particular short series.
And The Dream was a little better than Robinson in the post season.

But far from "much bigger", Robinson was SMALLER than Olajuwon overall.
7'0" 255 vs. 7'1, 235. Even visually it is puzzling how you can think there was a big difference-perhaps you confused the former's unusual muscular definition with size.

Also Robinson was significantly better overall.
Even though starting a couple years later due to his Navy service, check the meaningful statistics for overall contriibutions to a team & player value-efficiency rating, offensive & defensive win shares, WS per 48 minutes, value over replacement player (VORP)...
Robinson is incredibly high in all time listings, underrated.
Check career leaders in the advanced stats, or compare year to year win shares (measuring all one does to create or stop points):
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com[/url]

His athleticism & speed was part of it, but this & skills actually made him signifcantly better than Olajuwon overall.

 

Not many Heavyweights in history have the "boxing finesse" of an Anthony Joshua.

 

You didn’t like it? I thought for back and forth action, it was terrific.

But Lopez was indeed frustrating. He had a lot of talent, offensive skills and a terrific chin, but was notoriously lazy, a stoner surfer type. Page heavy hands but not the most skilled guy nor did he have the best chin. Obviously not the most stable guy as he can’t stop robbing banks.

 

Don't think it's changed much

Fighters of the 70's onwards had the same skillsets. Every fighter is unique.

the only thing that has really changed is the conditioning of them.

Boxing spent hundreds of years becoming the fine art that it is today...You can see the changes in fighting styles from the early 1900's to the early 50's but after the 60's and 70's it didn't see many fundamental changes.

We will never see a 6'8" 260 pound HW to grace the ring again with the footwork of Tyson Fury though. Fury is truly a mythical being.

 

His bank robbing takes up more of his wikipedia entry than his boxing career. At the top, it should read James Page (Bank Robber) not James Page (Boxer).