Are counter punchers glorified among hardcore fans?

how can you even argue this point? :huh

 

Well guess im gonna giveup on discussing counter punchers with you as well on how to score fights... oh well.

I did not see the Ponce fight, Hopkins vs Calzaghe i had Hopkins by a round but it had a few really close rounds where Hopkins non activity might have been trumped by Calzaghe landing a minimal amount of punches vs the volume he was putting out.

So im ok with a draw or either fighter winning by 1 round.
Watching portions of that fight in slowmo is just painful to see Joe just flailing in air like a complete amateur, but thats offset by Hopkins just not throwing anything at all.

You should watch the Lara vs Williams fight though, i think it will be very telling on your ability to score fights.
That fight is a showcase on Williams being MUCH busier but completely ineffective.

*edit my scoring that fight to Hopkins is for a large portion based on 1 of the other overlooked main scoring criteria... which is defense, Hopkins D was working amazingly vs Joe so i tend to give close rounds to him based on that + the cleaner punching.
But once again close fight and im ok with Joe winning a narrow decision.

 

The simple answer to the OP's question is, well, these "hardcore fans" probably have boxed themselves, and the simple truth is effective counter punching, especially when it's as clean and effective, is freaking difficult.

Don't get me wrong, what Pac does in the ring is a thing of beauty (that is being very fluid with his combinations and effortlessly switching from defending to counter punching to completely overwhelming the opponent with accurate shots and then coming back to defending again), but effortlessly counter punching your opponent is levels above "swarming".

This is also why the more hardcore fans would praise Pac more for his counter right hooks and lead lefts (counter to the jab) than his volume punching.

 

Clear win for Macklin, oddly enough on the flip side i thought Sturm got robbed in the Murray fight with the draw.

 

Was about to mention this. Macklin was robbed and strum comfortably neat Murray. Felt so bad felt so bad for macklin thought hopefully he gets the rematch and does the same thing as last time without the bull**** decision.

 

You cant trust judges especially not with fights that have a lot on the line or have great historical significance.

Trained judges also awarded the win to Helenius vs Chisora, or for Williams vs Lara, Oscar vs Sturm, Sturm vs Macklin, Trinidad vs Oscar and i can go on and on.

The way you know the judges are right is to score fights objectively based on the 4 main scoring criteria that i have rehashed over and over.
Now there can be a slight inconsistancy between judges because they are placed at different sides of the ring and sometimes they cant see the action properly.

But when there is a HUGE points swing that is inexplaineble to almost anyone that has a clue about boxing than obviously its a robbery.

On your logic we should just accept whatever judges say and when we do this we accept fight fixing and do nothing to adress it.

Also there is no need for me to be humble when 80%+ of the community let alone on ESB (which is a very HEAVY pro Pac orientated board) agrees with me.

Whats actually a disturbing trend of this thread is actually a few people praising Pacs increased boxing skill as if its a good thing.
Its bad enough that some die hard obsessed fans can't score fights it gets even more delusional if you praise the 1 thing that made Pac the most ineffective.
Because he tried to box this was the easiest to score fight and the most conclusive loss he has.

Pac is starting to get stuck inbetween styles because he started learning how to box way too late, instead of optimizing his offensive game hes becoming less effective at both.

 

I'd say it's almost an American vs. European thing when it comes to judges. At their absolute unbribed worst, American judges will simply give rounds to guys for throwing a lot, regardless of whether they actually land anything. And European judges at their absolute unbribed worst will give rounds to guys for landing a few relatively cleaner punches regardless of whether those cleaner punches are really any more effective than their opponents' and regardless of whether they've been outworked and outlanded for the entire round.

 

Great Post. PAC should just go back to beast mode like in the lower weights... Against superior fighter his new found "boxing skills" will not work.

 

:deal

 

Its like Gatti trying to box vs Mayweather it just does not make any sense.

Pac is gifted with some amazing physical attributes, and instead of trying to turn him into a boxer-puncher they should emphasise on what he does well, while at the same time plugging some defensive holes.

They did this correctly for a while by incorperating his right hand and him make him into a 2 handed offensive machine.
They worked on proper footwork which created angles which gave him more openings.

Now if they would plug some defensive holes and kept it at that he would still be a monster.

Right now you can see him think though... hes engaging into this chess match vs boxers that have been doing it for a decade longer and are just way better at it.
Instead of powering through you can see him anticipating ceirtan counters and he becomes hesitant.

Due to his blinding speed and power he should be able to take that 1 punch to land 2 or 3 of his own but as you could see in his last few fights his output dropped considerebly.

If the Mayweather fight comes off i actually give him a better chance than most people on here after the JMM fight but not if he thinks he can box Mayweather.