Are Fury and Wilder still #1 and #2 ?

I don't agree with @Dubblechin's logic in this thread, but your response is silly.

 

Fury is number one due to AJs loss to Ruiz
However, AJ is number two because he regained his titles.
Until Wilder comes out of hiding and beats a highly ranked fighter, he is number nothing.
Stewing in your gerbils and making excuses doesn't improve your ranking.
Until Wilder books a fight he is semi-retired.

 

#1 Fury
#2 Joshua

#3 Wilder
...
Some other guys.

Based on resume.

 

"2011 isn't working. 2011 isn't working. Abort. Abort. We're losing them. Abort."

 

First, Fury is the Champ because Fury was rated #1 and Wilder was rated #2 by Ring and Fury beat Wilder.

And Wilder has beaten the number four-rated contender twice in the last three years and drew with the world champ and dropped him twice.

Joshua is the one who needs to beat or at least draw with a highly rated current contender. The Whyte win was six years ago.

Finally, Wilder has a signed contract to fight Fury, who has been out as long as Wilder has.

For the last three years, Joshua has just been an onlooker while the top of the division goes on without him.

 

It is almost never true that Fighter X is afraid of Fighter Y. If that's your criticism, it's almost definitely wrong. Promoters do incorporate risk/reward math into their thinking which can be annoying, but the idea that Wilder would not fight Kingpin due to fear of losing is.....silly.

Wilder has fought the best guy in the division twice and another top 5-6 guy twice. If you want to criticize him for most of his defenses 2015-early 2017, I agree. Hayman was using Wilder as a tool to build up his network TV plan, which didn't work. And he had a lot of poor defenses those years.

But, starting late 2017:

Stiverne II: Mandatory
Ortiz I: Very good win against a guy this forum accused him of ducking
Fury I
Brazeale: Mandatory
Ortiz II: Another good win although I didn't want the rematch
Fury II

Not a ton of variety, but four of his past 6 fights have featured excellent opposition. And the other two were mandatories. Wilder has not voluntarily fought an overmatched opponent since Gerald Washington in 2017. That's the reality of it.

*Also*, I neglected to mention that even during the poor 2015-17 run, there's a massive caveat. Wilder had agreed to fight Povetkin in Russia in 2016, which of course got called off due to Povetkin testing positive. So he actually tried to fight another top 5 guy and in Russia, no less, and you can't blame him for that.

 

No Wilder is done. Fury took his soul.

 

When Wilder signed to fight the rematch with Ortiz in 2019, and the Fury rematch was next, and it was announced the loser of the Wilder-Fury rematch could ask for a third fight ...

I remember typing on this board that Wilder could fight Luis Ortiz (1), Tyson Fury (1), Dominic Breazeale, Luis Ortiz (2), Tyson Fury (2) and Tyson Fury (3) ALL IN A ROW in title fights ...

And people assured me if Wilder fought those guys in a row, nobody would question his record again.

And here we are, with it looking like the third fight might come before any Fury-Joshua fight ... and the same dolts who were bashing Wilder years ago are falling back to their old arguments from five years ago.

There always someone who is the last to get it.

"But, but, what about Stiverne-Austin?" (LOL)

 

Resumes since 2018:

Fury:
Seferi
Pianeta
Wilder I
Schwarz
Wallin
Wilder II

Joshua:
Parker
Povetkin
Ruiz I
Ruiz II
Pulev

Wilder:
Ortiz I
Fury
Brazeale
Ortiz II
Fury II

As you can see, Fury's post-comeback resume is quite poor. He has Wilder x 2 and no one else. Joshua's is very good, with Parker supposed to be a big fight (hasn't aged well) and Ruiz I an intended pushover to introduce him to USA fans. On the whole, though, befitting of a champion. Wilder's is the best of the three, because not only does he have Fury x2 he has Ortiz x 2.

If you want step back in time and say Joshua fought better people from 2015-17, I agree 100%. And I give Joshua credit for that and maintaining consistency against solid opposition. He's an excellent fighter and likely headed to the HoF.

But you can compliment Joshua while *also* acknowledging that whatever ills Wilder's resume suffered in those years, he has pulled it together since 2018. No rational person would criticize his opposition since then, and yet we still have people calling him a ducker.

 

You lost me there. Wilder FLOORED FURY TWICE and successfully defended the WBC heavyweight title against Fury in fight one.

GET OVER IT.

Just like the draw in Lewis-Holyfield I was a successful defense (for both). Just like Rahman-Toney was a successful defense. Just like Byrd-Golota was a successful defense. All the way back to just like Jack Johnson-Jim Johnson and Tommy Burns-Philadelphia Jack O'Brien were all successful defenses ... just like every draw in a title fight in boxing history was a successful defense ... Wilder-Fury I was a successful title defense for Deontay Wilder.

He made two more successful defenses after their first fight, and Wilder finally lost his title to Fury in their rematch ... in Wilder's 11th title defense.

If you can't acknowledge facts, don't bother typing.

Wilder wants Fury again because he's the only guy Wilder hasn't stopped, it's a big money fight, and Wilder is finally healthy after the bicep injury that required surgery in fight two.

If he beats Fury in the third fight, the series is even at 1-1-1.

 

I still have AJ at number two. However if he fought Wilder he would likely win every round until Wilder lands a right hand. It's a very winnable fight for either man depending on how accurate AJ can keep to his game plan.

 

It's 2021. Not 2011. Not 2015. Not 2017.

It's 2021.

Joshua had a better resume than Wilder in 2017. That was four years ago.

Look at the current division. Now, he doesn't.

 

In the last three years, Wilder has fought the current World Champion two times and floored him two times, and the current #4 contender two times and dropped him four times and stopped him two times.

In the last three years, Joshua has faced no one in the current top four or five and he has a loss to the sixth-rated heavyweight, Wilder a loss to the World Champ.

Fury and Wilder are the two best heavyweights. It looks like they will fight each other again next. Their fight has been signed since a week after their rematch.

Looks like Joshua will fight the #10 Usyk, who he planned to fight, before Hearn sidetracked everyone with his "mirage."

If Joshua had the best resume in 2017, he no longer does when you look at the current challengers in the current ratings.

That's all.

But I appreciate the Kingpin Johnson post. That was hilarious. (LOL)

 

Fury being floored twice doesnt change the round by round scoring system. Fury outlanded Wilder (and at a higher connect rate) in 9 of 12 rounds in the first fight, he looked on a different level 90% of the time. It was a clear indefensible robbery.

Lol yeah sure. Theres a lot of guys Wilder hasnt stopped considering hes barely been in there with any of the current top 10-15. Fury was an attempted cherry pick gone terribly wrong, simple as that. Again, if Wilder beat him the first time there would have been no rematch, if Wilder beat him the second time there would be no rematch. His management just wants to keep rolling the dice hoping he lands his Hail Mary one of these times so he can finally get the m0nkey off his back and get that belt again. I doubt Wilder himself even wants another fight with Fury at this point, hes finished.