Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, May 3, 2021.
Can tell you're a wilder fan,you are thick as mince.
I don't agree with @Dubblechin's logic in this thread, but your response is silly.
Fury is number one due to AJs loss to Ruiz
However, AJ is number two because he regained his titles.
Until Wilder comes out of hiding and beats a highly ranked fighter, he is number nothing.
Stewing in your gerbils and making excuses doesn't improve your ranking.
Until Wilder books a fight he is semi-retired.
Some other guys.
Based on resume.
In what way? Be more specific.
I remember Kevin Johnson talking about trying to get a fight with Wilder some years ago, and Wilder instead choosing some age 40 fat former middleweight with 38 losses.
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"2011 isn't working. 2011 isn't working. Abort. Abort. We're losing them. Abort."
First, Fury is the Champ because Fury was rated #1 and Wilder was rated #2 by Ring and Fury beat Wilder.
And Wilder has beaten the number four-rated contender twice in the last three years and drew with the world champ and dropped him twice.
Joshua is the one who needs to beat or at least draw with a highly rated current contender. The Whyte win was six years ago.
Finally, Wilder has a signed contract to fight Fury, who has been out as long as Wilder has.
For the last three years, Joshua has just been an onlooker while the top of the division goes on without him.
It is almost never true that Fighter X is afraid of Fighter Y. If that's your criticism, it's almost definitely wrong. Promoters do incorporate risk/reward math into their thinking which can be annoying, but the idea that Wilder would not fight Kingpin due to fear of losing is.....silly.
Wilder has fought the best guy in the division twice and another top 5-6 guy twice. If you want to criticize him for most of his defenses 2015-early 2017, I agree. Hayman was using Wilder as a tool to build up his network TV plan, which didn't work. And he had a lot of poor defenses those years.
But, starting late 2017:
Stiverne II: Mandatory
Ortiz I: Very good win against a guy this forum accused him of ducking
Ortiz II: Another good win although I didn't want the rematch
Not a ton of variety, but four of his past 6 fights have featured excellent opposition. And the other two were mandatories. Wilder has not voluntarily fought an overmatched opponent since Gerald Washington in 2017. That's the reality of it.
*Also*, I neglected to mention that even during the poor 2015-17 run, there's a massive caveat. Wilder had agreed to fight Povetkin in Russia in 2016, which of course got called off due to Povetkin testing positive. So he actually tried to fight another top 5 guy and in Russia, no less, and you can't blame him for that.
No Wilder is done. Fury took his soul.
When Wilder signed to fight the rematch with Ortiz in 2019, and the Fury rematch was next, and it was announced the loser of the Wilder-Fury rematch could ask for a third fight ...
I remember typing on this board that Wilder could fight Luis Ortiz (1), Tyson Fury (1), Dominic Breazeale, Luis Ortiz (2), Tyson Fury (2) and Tyson Fury (3) ALL IN A ROW in title fights ...
And people assured me if Wilder fought those guys in a row, nobody would question his record again.
And here we are, with it looking like the third fight might come before any Fury-Joshua fight ... and the same dolts who were bashing Wilder years ago are falling back to their old arguments from five years ago.
There always someone who is the last to get it.
"But, but, what about Stiverne-Austin?" (LOL)
Well, it's not me. It's everyone in 2014. Stiverne was universally regarded as a top fighter at the time.
End of 2014 Ring magazine ratings :
Champion : Wladimir Klitschko
Resumes since 2018:
As you can see, Fury's post-comeback resume is quite poor. He has Wilder x 2 and no one else. Joshua's is very good, with Parker supposed to be a big fight (hasn't aged well) and Ruiz I an intended pushover to introduce him to USA fans. On the whole, though, befitting of a champion. Wilder's is the best of the three, because not only does he have Fury x2 he has Ortiz x 2.
If you want step back in time and say Joshua fought better people from 2015-17, I agree 100%. And I give Joshua credit for that and maintaining consistency against solid opposition. He's an excellent fighter and likely headed to the HoF.
But you can compliment Joshua while *also* acknowledging that whatever ills Wilder's resume suffered in those years, he has pulled it together since 2018. No rational person would criticize his opposition since then, and yet we still have people calling him a ducker.
You lost me there. Wilder FLOORED FURY TWICE and successfully defended the WBC heavyweight title against Fury in fight one.
GET OVER IT.
Just like the draw in Lewis-Holyfield I was a successful defense (for both). Just like Rahman-Toney was a successful defense. Just like Byrd-Golota was a successful defense. All the way back to just like Jack Johnson-Jim Johnson and Tommy Burns-Philadelphia Jack O'Brien were all successful defenses ... just like every draw in a title fight in boxing history was a successful defense ... Wilder-Fury I was a successful title defense for Deontay Wilder.
He made two more successful defenses after their first fight, and Wilder finally lost his title to Fury in their rematch ... in Wilder's 11th title defense.
If you can't acknowledge facts, don't bother typing.
Wilder wants Fury again because he's the only guy Wilder hasn't stopped, it's a big money fight, and Wilder is finally healthy after the bicep injury that required surgery in fight two.
If he beats Fury in the third fight, the series is even at 1-1-1.
I still have AJ at number two. However if he fought Wilder he would likely win every round until Wilder lands a right hand. It's a very winnable fight for either man depending on how accurate AJ can keep to his game plan.