Are gloves in MMA an advantage?

No offense but those videos show nothing but overbruised knuckles. Yes, if you punch long enough you will develop thick knuckles and deaden nerves.

Important: They are punch against flat stable surface with punches that are probably 3rd as hard as they should be. I want to see that dude punch that board with a left hook setting it up like a boxer(screwing counter-clockwise, coming through with a punch etc). Now that punch will shred that board in half or put a dent in it at least.

The video you show is very similar to what mui thai fighters do to their shins. But with your shins you don't have to worry about very small bones in your hand, complex structure of the wrist and all the tendons/ligaments.

There's a good reason why pro boxers wrap their hands up while on a heavy bag. It's not to get used to the gloves. It's to protect their hands because force generated by their punches will shred their wrists and hands in no time.

 

So you are telling me that they do not show people punching extremely hard surfaces with their well-conditioned knuckles at full force and not breaking/injuring (all the small fragile bones) their hands?

are you sure you watched the right videos?

If you punch someone in the face with your knuckles properly, the fight will be over long before your knuckles begin to bruise.

Clarify: The surfaces are 1/3rd as hard as they should be? or the punches are 1/3rd as hard as they should be?

The video demonstrated the extreme capability given ideal technique, hence the flat, stable surface. The object he punched is many many many many times more dangerous to the hand than the face, and he conquored it. I doubt they could break granite at angles, but breaking bones and obliterating someones face would be a breeze.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_iFWCukwg&feature=related[/ame]
These guys seem to be fine with punching the body (easier to bend a wrist on, with less give than the face, yet similar consistancy) very hard and repeatedly for the duration of their matches.

do you think they would opt to wear gloves if they could ? :yep

Im still not sure why you seem to think that someone could break 7 granite slabs (world record held by a turk who broke with a knifehand strike) and be ok, but they could punch someones smushy fragile nose and somehow their hands would be in danger.

First off you are talking about their hands which are unconditioned for bare-knuckle. You keep using the danger to the untrained person as an example of the danger to the trained person. Very flawed.

Secondly, while training a boxer punches for hours a day, day after day, often with incorrect form (relevant to bare-knuckle that is) his hands become fatigued and he gets stress fracures from continual stress being distributed all over his unconditioned hand over long peroids of time (many many hours a day over months and years).

The amount of punching which causes such thing is far beyond the amount of punching that takes place in a fight, and thousands of times more than the amount of punching a persons face that it would take to ruin your hand given proper conditioning and technique.

 

Yes, a HUGE advantage. Not only does it allow a striker to puncher harder, and more often... but it also makes it much harder for a grappler to lock in submission holds.... and a wrestler to get the same types of grips on his holds. It's a FACT that gloves were introduced into MMA because all of the strikers were breaking their hands. Everything about gloves in MMA is an advantage for a striker. For those who think it is somehow a disadvantage... I would venture to say that you haven't been in a bare fisted fight... and then at least sparred with MMA gloves on. Even more simple then that... go whale on a solid heavybag with your bare fists.... then do it with MMA gloves on. See which way allows you to let your hands go more... and with more force. If you say your bare hands... you are lying to yourself. Go punch a cement wall/floor with your bare fist... and then to so with MMA gloves on. I think that you get the point. Also, like I pointed out earlier... that is just the striking side of it. The fact that it is a handicap to grapplers is at the other spectrum. A lot of control in wrestling and subs in submission fighting is about the ability to slip your hands into tight spaces, or lock your hands in a certain manner. Both of these things are much more difficult with MMA gloves on. So... both ends of the spectrum are advantages for strikers and disadvantages to wrestlers/submission fighters.

 

Enough about the nonsense "toughing your hands" routine. All that does is toughen up your knuckles a bit. In many cases... causes serious long term harm to them. My oldest brother was a 3rd degree black belt in Karate... and was very well versed in ninjutsu as well. He was into all of that stuff... used to toughen up his knuckles... they look funny as hell. His knuckles are still all loaded up with deposits, and each knuckle is huge and toughened up. Guess what happened the last time that he got into a fight? Boxers fracture. Now, he is 37 years old with horrible arthritis in his hands. Get off it already. All it really does is give calcium deposits and callus the skin. It doesn't stop you from injuring your hands, and generally causes problems down the road... not far down it either.

BTW... he used to break all sorts of **** with strikes for his demonstrations. It's rather simple as to why you can do this more readily without injuring your hand. You line it up perfectly, and strike it square. In a real fight, you don't have the luxury. In a real fight you are punching a moving target and you don't always land flush... or with the perfect knuckle placement, ect....

 

An unconditioned striker maybe

but it drastically reduces the damage

Except the armbar and multiple holds where the grappler can get a better grip on his other glove than he can his natural hand. Not to mention the possible difficulty in holding chokes is vastly outweighed on the other side of the equation where it completely changes the game.

unconditioned improper srikers. Also it was done to help make the sport more legitamate and reduce the damage to the fighters faces.

you continue to ignore the factors of fistic conditioning and proper technique. What is true for a random person is not true for all people.

I have a better proposal, go to your neighborhood bar and challenge someone to a facial punching exchange, one punch at a time. Insist they be bareknuckle, and put on mma gloves. Afterwards take pictures of botrh of your faces.

Or better yet, go enter kyokushinkai nationals and wear mma gloves. Be sure to admire the sheer pain shooting through your ribs and take note that the other fighters hands are comletely fine.

I have a water filled heavy bag of 160 pounds which I practice on barefisted. I can punch it at full force. I have broken boards with my fist, and as I have shown in extensive proof, proper punching technique can break granite.

You must see that your argument is like saying that rifles are not as effective as swords in combat. You attempt to prove this by giving an olympic fencer a sword, and a 12 year old a full-auto rifle, and celebrating over the olympic fencers victory while refusing to acknowledge the realities that the rifle is extremely effective in combat in the right hands, far more so than the sword.

Also, you keep on speaking as if force is the sole determinant of the damage of the punch. You ignore density of the object, bone alignment, surface area, and cutting factors.

 

Your personal experience is highly subjective to your pre-existing opinions. The evidence I provided in video is obviously empirical.

And if 'toughening up your knuckles a bit' makes the difference between a boxer getting stress factors behind a glove and a Taekwondoin breaking granite with his knuckles and being fine, I would say you are vastly understating the magnitude of importance.

Also, a boxers break results from hitting with the wrong part of the hand, not from over exerting proper technique:good

 

The gloves in MMA are a disadvantage to both strikers and grapplers.

 

You are still being illogical. To be honest... you keep ignoring reality as well. It makes me feel like you are grasping all of your knowledge through youtube videos and not personal experience. I don't need to watch a youtube video to tell me the answer here, I have experienced it myself. Like I said... it's real simple to find the answers for yourself. Just do what I said to do.

You act like punching a person is like punching a piece of granite. You are more likely to break your hand in a fight, then you are by breaking boards or bricks, ect... You can have all of the proper technique that you want... that doesn't assure that your punches are going to land square in a real fight. People move. That's when you fracture/break your hands for the most part. It's pretty damn easy to hit something square that is motionless in front of you. So.. it's simple to understand why you can break your hand hitting something that may not be as hard as a piece of granite... when your hand doesn't land with the perfect placement. Like I already said...

BTW... I am already over the "knuckle toughening" nonsense. That works great for breaking boards, and bricks... but doesn't stop you from landing a punch the wrong way on a moving target. Like I said... I have seen this first hand myself as well. I don't need a youtube video for that either. I can find a youtube video that can argue anything, that doesn't make it correct. My brother was high up in Karate and Ninjutsu and already went down that road. Sure... he could break all sorts of ****. Beyond that he did great stunts such as jumping over a row of 14 crouched down people all in a line... and breaking 3 boards with a kick on the other side before he hit the ground. Really impressive stuff, and he was a general bad ass in the street as well. However, "toughening his knuckles" didn't help him at all outside of his demonstrations. As I already stated... he now has horrible arthritis which has been directly related to it... and he broke his hand in a fight anyways. But hey... at least he has disgusting looking hands!

 

It is a double edged sword. Strikers could close the show quicker, grapplers could lock numerous subs easier, Strikers would bust their hands, grapplers would take harder and more accurate shots etc etc

The idea is for the gloves to try and stop damage to face, damage to hands etc but without drastically changing the nature of a pure fight.

 

That little glove won't prevent you from breaking your hand on someone's head. People still break their hands. A lot of the time it has to do with the sort of strikes of opportunity.. Someone gets rocked, and then the sort of, "finish him." Instinct takes over... A lot of the time I see guys break their hands is because of the hammer fists landing on the head and breaking the pinky metacarpal, an area that isn't even fully protected by the gloves.. Need a lot more padding to stop that bone from breaking if it lands wrong on someone's head.. That, or you have to have some dense bones.. The way the sort of strikes work, if you don't go through, you are breaking something.

If your going to have a serious break, its going to happen with or without those gloves.. What they might protect hands from are things like bleeding knuckles on guys who don't train at stuff like body hardening, building up hand bones and calluses. That being said, someone's raw knuckles on an opponents face is going to shred someones face, especially someone who had turned their fist into a basic bludgeon through years of hardening.

 

Its not something that happens overnight. If you learn anything about nutrition, lifting weights, you know there is a breakdown and rebuilding of your bones..

When you squat, the goal isn't to break your legs in the process.. The goal is to strengthen your legs and stress your bones, then feed your body to let it heal and recover..

If you break your hand, **** up an knuckle and get boxers knuckle, then you are over doing it. If someone who breaks boards and and blocks, shatters a wrist, then they ****ed up and there is really no way of fully recovering from that. It's no different than over-training a muscle, except with bones, when you break them there isn't really any sort of full repair that is going to happen.

 

This TKD McBlackbelt needs to stfu...punching through blocks is easier on the hands as long as you clear all of them. I've never seen anyone punch a hole in someone's head...nobody knows when your hand will break, but it will happen sooner than later...especially with looping punches on an anything but flat area.

 

Its not that simple. If things have give, then you are going to be less likely to break your hand, just like if you punch through something.

What ends up causing a ton of damage is when the energy, "rebounds" and returns to the fist or whatever appendage you are striking with when you don't get a clean break.

I think, when you throw hooks, the problem might come from not turning the hand over, and landing with the pink knuckle. But, you are right.. It isn't really one of those punches that is considered a technical strike in many of the disciplines that incorporate things like body hardening/bone hardening that I know of..

But, do the gloves give the sort of protection that will protect you from breaking your hand if you strike a sort of oval surface with a left hook, in which you don't turn your hand over?

I can totally see how people break their hands with this punch though, trained or not.