Are gloves in MMA an advantage?

It's funny watching you post these videos over and over again. You don't seem to understand that I used to go to these demonstrations all of the time with my brother for his Karate. I was in Ninjutsu myself. None of that stuff means ANYTHING. My brother lived the stuff his entire life, and he would tell you the exact same thing that I am telling you. None of this has anything to do with MMA, or how gloves protect your hands. BTW... I have seen guys break their hands while doing those demonstrations too. I am sure I could find a youtube video for it as well. Why on earth do you keep posting those meaningless videos?

 

[DM]x1eywy_taekwondo-vs-mma_people[/DM]

 

I haven't repeated a single video. obviously you are not paying attention?

people punching full force bare fisted against multiple different things and not breaking their hands is extremely relevant in an argument where one side claims that people need gloves to protect their hands when punching.

you are kind of saying that people punching eachother with their bare fists succesfully does not mean people can punch eachother with their bare fists sucessfully.

I'm sure. I post the videos because they prove excessively that a human after proper training can hit almost anything as hard as he can and he will be ok afterwards.

Lol, did you immediately go to youtube and type in "Taekwondo guy gets his ass kicked" just to try and get me angry? is that how futile your argument is? Nice try lol, close but no cigar, I have seen this video many times before. The small guy getting slammed now makes videos on youtube about how to fight, even one bashing taekwondo which clearly demonstrates h does not understand taekwondo

What, did you think you found a video of my hero or some world Taekwondo chamion failing? atsch

 

I can't believe you keep posting that ****. Let me see him break that brick after he places it on the flat floor. Or at least let him break it when it's clipped to a 120lb heavy bag.

 

You posted three kinds of videos. One was people hitting things that are flat standing still. Things that weight 5lbs and snap under certain pressure thus not giving any feedback. And karate video where they punch hard enough to make a little girl cry.

 

Keep posting what? I am not reposting anything. Every video I post is notably different than the previous ones and shows something else integral to the discussion.

He would probably not break the rock while it was flat on the ground, however that is irrelevant. I did not post the video because I think you could punch someone and break their head in two. The video (notably the second one) shows a man with very good power hitting his bare hand against a rock with all his might and being fine, in fact he hit it again with all his might and broke it successfully.

Now tell me why a trained person hitting with less force (due to being upright and not using downward motion as was mentioned earlier) on a softer target which gives and moves would injure their hand when this man would not.

I await your explanation, but your answer is already refuted by the kyokushin "****" videos that "I keep posting"

video of successful and unsuccessful breaks against granite, marble, stone, wood, concrete, glass bottles, and roofing tiles. Then videos of training on the makiwara one with give one without. Then video of kyokushin fighters fighting barefisted full contact.

 

Weren't you saying these strikes would work punching skulls earlier? Obviously most tissue around the trunk (besides the hip area) is alot softer than someone's skull.

I would watch your video's but my internet is extremely slow today! Although I have seen the earlier UFC with bare knuckle karate practicioner's and I do recall seeing some pretty busted up hands.

Point taken but you do not know the aftermath of any of these video's you have posted, for all you know they could have serious injuries, fighter's have been known too fight on with broken hands.

No I mean as in punching a taller opponent, I'm not an expert by any means but whenever I hit the mits I've always been told to punch a little bit higher.

Exactly my point, when would you use such a strike in a fight. I beg to differ that the technique does not change, there is alot more to technique than hitting a target with a certain area of the knuckle. What about leg placement, hip movement, head movement and holding your hands high to defend from punches? The techniques used for breaking stationary boards and punching in a fight change dramatically.


Perfect technique all the time would be nice in a perfect world but the truth of the matter is in the heat of a battle, using weird angles in a fight makes it impossible to have perfect technique all the time which is why padding on the knuckes and more importantly wrist support is a great advantage for the striker. I know you'll point me to more karate point sparring tournaments but the nature of the fight is very much differant to a MMA or boxing bout, due to the point scoring system of the fights.

 

You would be aiming for the face and hit it the vast majority of the time. In real fights people tend te break noses, jaws, even cheekbones the bare knuckle body shots are devastating to those not conditioned to take them.

I recall seeing some pretty busted up faces

yes we do. The kyokushin fighters carry out the entire fight, the girl hits the makiwara daily with no problem, the Taekwondoin who hit it as hard he he could and it didnt break so he hit it again and broke it. also, in taekwondo breaking tournaments there are rounds of breaking (preliminary, semi final, etc...) in the same day and people often save their hardest breaks for last. I also have videos of a single person repeatedly breaking I think about ten different obstacles.

And again, the downward force of these strikes puts more pressure on the hand (against a stronger surface)than an upright punch, and even so these people are able to withstand the pressure with ease.

Depends on how much taller. Power would probably dissipate in a similar way to a gloved person punching a taller person as well.

yeah, there are different ways. People can punch bareknuckle in those different ways, see kyokushin videos.

The purpose of the maximum power breaking videos is to demonstrate that the properly trained hand can withstand forces far greater than anything a bare knuckle fighter would encounter in a fight.

being without gloves would result in more cutting at wierd angles. Most damaging punches are with correct angles. Wrist support is developed by these practitioners. There is nothing the glove provides that cannot be learned/conditioned. The effects it has on a skilled sriker is a reduction in damage and a slowing of the hands.

If anything they help the grappler by allowing him to punch improperly without ruining his hands.

Those tournaments are bare-knuckle full contact and continuous. They are not point-fighting. In some of these videos people are KO'd from the body contact alone.

The nature of the punching is different? no kidding. They are using proper technique, not throwing ridiculous hayemakers and not jabbing with the outside edges of their gloves. Look at the way lyoto machida typically punches. It has been wildly sucessfull despite his handicap wearing gloves. Now imagine the damage he would be doing without gloves.

 

It is posts like this that make it clear to me you are not even trying to hear what I am saying.

let me spell it out for you

I am not saying kyokushin fighters will dominate mma by only punching the body.

I am saying that the properly trained fist can withstand continuous punching against a resisting opponent at all sorts of angles as is shown in the video. Do you know why they do not punch to the face in kyokushin? It is because it would be destroying their faces so much that they could not compete more than a few times.

So, rather than pervert their punching by adding gloves, they keep it realistic and restrict the face. Its not to save their hands.

MMA fighters in their current state would be breaking hands left and right because most of them punch poorly.

Ill ask of you the same thing I asked ufloalf

"Now tell me why a trained person hitting with less force (due to being upright and not using downward motion as was mentioned earlier) on a softer target which gives and moves would injure their hand when this man (breaking stone, granite, etc... with a bare hand) would not."

your opposing argument rests on the idea that the trained hand cannot take the stress of landing on someones face unprotected. So I show you a person breaking things which are much more damaging to the hands, being hit harder than punches are thrown in an mma fight.

did you ever stop to think that the reason karate isnt more sucesfull in mma is because they are wearing gloves? It seems to me that lyoto machida is outpunching everyone he runs into despite wearing gloves, and he has proper technique. Let him fight without gloves and he will truly dominate.

Again I ask, if gloves are to protect the hands, why are they mandatory? Why cannot someone who wants to 'disadvantage' their striking game by fighting without gloves?

gloves were introducted to reduce damage to the opponents face and legitimize mma as a sport.

Power breaking in taekwondo is demonstration, and competition. It shows the forces the hand can take. A break against stone or granite is far more damaging to the untrained hand than someones head. You repeating yourself in this post is leading me to repeat myself in my answers.

MMA gloves protect MMA strikers hands while still hindering their damage.

MMA gloves impede upon the striking ability of a trained barefisted fighter by decreasing the damage of his blows and making his highly valuable training cancel out. This is one of the reasons why karateka are not all at the top of MMA.

 

Let me ask you something, you ever wonder why it hurts more when the board doesn't break? Have you ever tried it yourself? When the board or w/e breaks it doesn't have the same feed back into your hands. Humans don't break. They will absorb the damage and give almost as much force back into your hands, newtons third law. Thats why you'll never see these karate chopping guys break anything that is based on something heavy. They do it against air.
"MMA gloves impede upon the striking ability of a trained barefisted fighter by decreasing the damage of his blows and making his highly valuable training cancel out. This is one of the reasons why karateka are not all at the top of MMA."
Wow. That is the most asinine **** you've posted so far. Remove the gloves and we'll see karateka guys running MMA, please indulge, what are the other reasons why they are not ALL at the top of MMA? I'm sure it has nothing to do with ****, unpractical style that doesn't generate nearly enough force in they punches.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4EfIWeqVM&feature=related[/ame]



Wow, I just saw this:
"Now tell me why a trained person hitting with less force (due to being upright and not using downward motion as was mentioned earlier) on a softer target which gives and moves would injure their hand when this man would not."

Alright buddy. You're dismissed. You have never been punched. Or punched a heavy bag. If you have you would KNOW that you can generate a LOT more force if you're standing on your feet than you do punching down. Either that or you punch like the karate guys with little power.

 

Trying to chop coconuts on a steel girder. :|

What a fecking clown.

TKDjoe gtfo of here with these garbage videos.

It's impossible to take you seriously.

TKD sucks! :yep

Bricks don't hit back! :yep

Gloves are great for strikers! :yep

 

It's really ****ing simple. Rocks/boards w/e toys you want to break that snap don't provide continuous force.
It's the same **** that they do on "fight science" or w/e one of those shows that measures how hard people punch/tackle or w/e and say "it's like getting hit by a bull! OMG!". Right, except the bull will keep on going through you with the same amount of force while getting tackled or punched will actually STOP the tackle or the punch. It's NOTHING like getting by a bull.
Well proper punching technique has both, the snap that gives you that high PSI that will break rocks, and the follow through that is very hard on your joints and small bones and has the knockout power.
Now get your karate ass out into a boxing gym, hit a 60lbs heavy bag as hard as you can(with proper technique, starting from your legs and a follow through) and then hit a 120lbs(it's long for kickboxers) heavy bag, they're both just as hard on the surface! See how you feel. Then come back here and see if you post more of your videos.

 

Yes I have broken many boards myself. After all, I do taekwondo.

Did you see the guy hit the rock and it not break, then hit it again and break it? are you reading what im typing?

A person just hit a STONE at full force with their bare hand and it did not break. It might as well have been flat on the ground because it didnt break. And guess what, his hand was ok. So ok in fact, that he went on to break the stone.

Now, do you understand the concept of punching someones head which moves and gives when it is hit? If they can hit a stationary stone seated on the edge of a steel slab, a head on a wobbly neck is no match at all.

You are only hearing things the way you want to hear them

I said wearing gloves is one of the reasons Karateka are not all at the top. Do you see it, one of the reasons?

hence only someone who is reading the text and wanting it to mean something outrageous so he can feel he is right wouild think that is the same as 'remove mma gloves and all the belt holders will be karateka'

I';m not sure you understand the nature of this discussion. This guy here is hitting very round, hard objects which roll side to side allowing his hand to slip by hitting the cusp of a steel I beam. He hit it at full force what looks like 10 times. His problem is accuracy and the roll factor. Yet even in that he was still able to continue practically chopping a steel rod with his hands.

Are you my coach?

Yes, actually I have. I was in an allout fist fight for about 5 minutes when I was in fifteen. We punched eachother a lot. It seems to me like you pretend to know when you do not.

I have a waterfilled 160 lb ringside heavybag which I mostly kick, but do practice bare-fisted punching at full force. My knuckles get red and it tingles, thats it.

Well I dont think hitting a punching bag without Piezoelectric sensors and a computer to analyze the information would answer that question for you.

The idea was actually brought up in this thread by someone opposing my viewpoint, so I accepted it for the sake of argument. I actually assumed most people would agree with him because so many people on here talk about the extra power people get from the gnp strategy.

Either way, people holding breaking records have always broken the record punching downward, so I would say that is pretty conclusive. If you watch the videos you can see the breakers jumping up and using the falling weight of their body in combination with their arm thrusting downward to create maximum force.

you have mentioned multiple times now something about 'karate people not punching hard'. This is an interesting conclusion. Considering some of the kyokushin fighters practice punching in great volume and condition themselves to use it in world class competitions where they use proper technique, why would you say they do not punch hard? are they a phisiologicaly inferior race of humans wh cannot create power with their arms no matter how much they train them?

I would disagree (as would say, the factual evidence in the videos where people are breaking stone and granite with their hands, i would like to see a boxer do that) for a multitude of reasons, one reason being that I see them forcing body Ko's against eachother in tournaments (which is very impressive considering they condition themselves to withstand such punches as best they can).

However I am more inclined to go to the conclusion that you do not understand punching and have the common belief that the massive, wild, loopy hayemakers which we see so much of in mma are superior simply because they are bigger motions.

Furthermore, could the reason these breakers are capable of such feats not be better explained by of the observable and empirical phisiological changes in the skin and bone of the striking points paired with technique and extreme conditioning? Or would you like to stick to 'karate people cant punch hard'?

Perhaps you could enter a national level kyokushin tournament and post the film of you withstanding their body punches with ease? then you could apply your far more powerful version of unique 'mma' punching which can only be achieved by two sloppy strikers swinging for the fences unil they knock another out seemingly by chance?

even then, I would find it conclusive that the karatekas have better punching skills because machida is dominating with his punches using proper technique, and not throwing wild like so many others, despite the handicap of him being forced to wear gloves.

Also, would you answer my question of why gloves are not optional? also, could you adress the other side of the issue which is the obvious fact that proper bare-knuckle punching does more damage due to less surface area, higher strking object density, proper bone alignment, no adding, and higher cutting factor?