Are gloves in MMA an advantage?

I thought head strikes were illegal in karate comps? In real fights people tend to break their hands. In MMA bouts people get knocked out.

Breaking things are neat demonstrations and nothing else, they have no relavance when it comes to fighting especially MMA or boxing.

Which is why breaking boards has no relavence in a fight.

No the purpose is to sell the martial art as being superhuman when in reality there are superior fighting styles. It's a party trick.

Yes being without gloves may cause more cutting, but cuts don't end real fights. What is a correct angle? Angles become completely differant in a real fight, especially in a street fight where your opponent can be very unpredictable. The effects are less cuts which is a good thing in sanctioned bouts and more knockouts.

Maybe proper for karate, doesn't make it right. I'm more inclined to study boxing for striking than any other martial art. Lyoto is famous for his evasive style, not for smashing people's faces although he had good knockouts over Rashad and Silva, he barely scratched Shogun.

 

The opponents in the kyokushin tournaments are resisting and blocking heavily.

Also, did you again ignore the breaker who did wail on a solid stone, and was still able to go on and break it seconds later?

anything with give reduces impact. This is why hitting your couch does not put the same stress on your hand as hitting a slab of granite.

The relevance of taekwondo to mma is a whole nother discussion. Im not trying to make it relevant. Im discussing the relevance of proper bare-knuckle striking to an actual self defense situation, and how training for such is completely negated by the required gloves.

Dont forget, mma is still very far from an actual fight.

The stationary makiwara, the bricks that dont break provided continuous force.

someones head which moves and gives when it is punched is not a continuous force.

those breakers could withstand that continous force even though that is over kill because they would never have to.

Im not even sure which fight science episode you are talking about, I find most of them to be heavily biased twards mma.

The amount of my text which you either refuse to consider, or blatantly ignore only reafirms my theory that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I will repeat myself only once for you.

I don't do karate.
My bag is 160 lbs
I punch it full force bare knuckled and repeatedly quite often

you speak as if it would 'open my mind' or something :yep

 

I wonder how much worse it would have been without gloves?

I doubt that Machida feels handicaped when wearing gloves.

I think he was glad that he gloved up vs Shogun.

This content is protected

 

They are illegal in those bouts. Do you know why?

its not to save their hands.

the fights I posted are not demonstrations. Also they have more relevance to a real fight than mma or boxing because the punchers are using proper technique, which is relevant to how you will actually be fighting, in a real fight, with no gloves.

above you said it has no relevance to an mma fight, here you say a real fight. please realize they are not the same thing. Breaking boards teaches proper technique, wearing gloves allows the use of improper technique. therefore breaking bords is more relevant to a real fight.

so you could do it too?

im not sure if you are familiar with the technique and training used to accomplish these breaks. Basically it involves hitting the target as hard as humanly possible at a right angle with the well conditioned part of your hand. Not much trick to it. As a matter of fact, it is a competitive event in taekwondo. Many times, the breakers are unsucesfull and must try again. It is not something easily mastered as 'party trick' would imply.

It is learning to hit properly at maximum force against a solid object, which is essentially what a real fight is minus timing and distance. However, that maximum force will not be exerted upon your hand because heads move when you hit them, and people are KO'd by forces much smaller han those required to break granite.

they cause excessive bleeding and swelling which end fights, blind, confuse, terrify, cause light headness, cause shock which all end fights.

more Ko's because of the gloves? lol. Do you understand the concept of a padded blow, something with give doing less damage?

I watched lyoto beating top mma fighter with punching using proper technique despite the gloves.

 

Not surprised. The glove distributes force of the punch to areas of the hand which are not designed to take it. Also, by reducing the damage it required machida to punch more than he would have without gloves.

A good example of why mma is not as relevant to a real fight as most would like to think.

 

The stone he didn't break was absorbed by his hand. The video is ridiculous, he held the stone with one hand and broke it with the other . It's a joke. How much force can a person hold with their hand? That rock clearly doesn't require that much force to break. It's layered, it snaps.

I can't believe I keep even arguing with you about this. atsch

 

how hard? enough to snap a stone that looks to be 6 inches thick. All stones have layers, that looked like a standard rock to me, not shale. The stone was not even very long for that matter, and he didnt break it in the center. They have to train extensively to gain the ability to do that. A stone which snaps will cause much more force on the hand than a head which bobs when struck.

if you want more where people are not holding you can see here at 0:34 and 2:50.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frZUEXzWE5Q[/ame]

These people are undoubtedly punching as hard as they can, the elements of this 'demonstration' is also part of the competition, and most people cannot create enough force to break marble, despite extensive training and conditioning.

so, A guy hits many stationary slabs of granite multiple times at full force. That is conclusive evidence that not only could his hand survive punching someones head which is softer and moves easily, but his conditioning is overkill and punching the head is a joke by comparison.

oh if your going to go with the 'Im not talking to you, its not worth my valuable forum browsing time' reason to leave, you could at least be considerate enough to attempt to respond to all of my points before you tucktail and run off.

 

I never said that you repeated a video. You just keep posting meaningless videos over and over again. This argument is boring to me... that's why I decided to post the video. Every time that I see your name TKD, I just keep thinking about that video.

Not to be rude or anything... but I have been around Martial Arts and Mixed Martial Arts for basically my entire life. Are you unaware that Taekwondo is kinda like the "joke" of the martial arts world? I didn't want to bring this up earlier, but it seems like you are unaware of this. Obviously you have been brainwashed enough by your life of TKD, which is why you can't understand simple things like MMA gloves protecting a fighters hands. So... I have given up on trying to get you to see reality... which is what I should have stuck to days ago when I said the same thing. I can't believe that you don't understand simple logic like the fact that these guys are striking OBJECTS THAT ARE IN PLACE AND NOT MOVING!!!! That's great... now what happens when you throw that punch at a guy who is moving... and it doesn't land square and impacts the wrong part of your hand? Is this that hard to understand? Here I go again... trying to believe that you will understand simple logic.

 

its unfortunate that you have such a misguided opinion of taekwondo.

I have heard many people say this, and I fully and completely understand why that is the popular perception. I have studied extensively on the subject, it is not news to me.

But many people who are exceptionally educated in martial arts feel otherwise. Such as our olympic judo and boxing teams who I had the opportunity of talking with. They said they thought the TKD team were "some bad mothers"

I have other theories as to why you have given up, but to each his own.

I thought you gave up?

A moving object means it is giving space, and hence has less of an effect on the strikers hand. Funny thing is you and Ufaolf are both getting frusterated with me even though your arguments are contradictory.

If you punch properly your chances of landing with the wrong part of your head are drastically reduced. If your knuckles are conditioned, then the chances of your hand being hurt are greatly reduced. So greatly reduced are these factors that kyokushin fighters can fight in tournaments continuously with their bare fists against the opponents chest which is blocked, angles off to attempt to dodge, hooked into at 'odd angles' and people seem to be just fine. If anything it is easier to bend your wrist on the opponents chest than their head.

I can also find you evidence of street thugs punching eachothers faces for the duration of the fight, and the other guys face giving our before his hand, despite their lack of conditioning and training. Would you like some of that? or are you quitting?

 

Yes, because alot of karate clubs don't practice full contact sparring, perhaps they're scared of being hit in the face. I guess your fight when you were 15 is a testament to the toughness of a TKD practicioner?

Like I said, proper technique for a karate match, where head strikes are illegal thus cancelling out alot of technical aspects of fighting.

I hope you are not serious? Can a rock defend itself? No. Does a rock throw punches back? No. Can a rock move? No. What is the relavance? None.

No. Would I want too? No, because it has no relavance to training.

Let me get this straight, the guy who can break the most bricks wins the fight? No. Here's a youtube video you should look up, it's called Gracie's in action. You don't have to even throw a punch, let alone a kick to win a fight.

Dude, you got hit in a fight when you were 15. Have you ever been hit with a MMA glove? There's not a hell of alot of padding. Do you even do full contact sparring? Or is your gym one of the MANY TKD mcdojo's that feed this bull**** by the spoonful to their students. Wake up, I know MMA fighter's personally that totally agree with what I and most other people on this board are saying.

 

Full contact means full force. All contact means hit anywhere. No fighting sport in the world is all contact.

and now to repeat myself in saying that they do not punch to the face so that they can fight barefisted instead so that they will maintain proper technique and fistic conditioning. Unlike boxing and mma where they cover their hand and punch however they feel. Then wonder why they sprain their wrist and break their pinky knuckles in fights.

He asked me if I had ever been punched, and I said that I had. Do you have a problem with my response?

No, it has nothing to do with my toughness as a TKD fighter, why do you ask?

when people hit eachother in the face and are sucessfull, what part of their hand do you think they use?

Their front two knuckles. They dont just smack any ol part of the hand on there because then you might hurt your hand.

Also, notice that boxers practice punching the bag below their standing chin level because when people fight their knees bend, and they tend to get about 5 inches lower.

obviously it cannot. Breaking is for training power and proper technique. Sparring is for training timing and distance (which machida is rocking people with :hey)

did you know that if you do not condition your hands and punch with the proper technique you could get a boxers break against the face of an opponent? you might want to consider learning, so you dont break your hand in a real fight.

its not a fight. It is a brick breaking competition. They are not trying to simulate combat, they are perfecting power, technique, and fistic conditioning because it is relevant to a real fight (though not so much an mma fight)

You don't have to grapple to win a fight either, what is your point?

yes I have. It hurt, but im glad he was wearing it.

Yes, I do a lot of it. I hope to compete at nationals this year.

No, I would say its not. But if you think the stuff I am discussing is mcdojo in nature then I might go to what you would consider a mcdojo. (although, from the sounds of your satement, you do not understand the meaning of the term mcdojo, and your view is inconsistant with the vast majority of educated martial artists in the country which define mcdojo differently).

wow a real live mma fighter? he must be like the ultimate athority on all fighting.

I know and train under multiple people who have been in hundreds of street fights throughout their lives. Many of which were fullscale riots. These people grew up as kids in the innercity as whites during desegregation and were attacked on a regular basis. Their stories are consistant with the names, places, scars, news stories, and pictures they have also shown me. I have also spoken to people who confirm many of their experiences. And I know these people on a very personal level. Their views are consistant with people who have been in even more fights than them (people who you might say live pretty ****ed up lives). Not that there is anything honorable or glorious about that, but I'll take their word for it.


It's getting late, I'm going to bed. I hope to come back to find intelligent responses to all of my arguments. Goodnight everyone

 

I always loved that Coconut chop video. Hilarious.

 

So you don't train full contact? I mean full contact within the context of your martial art. In your case full contact would be live sparring, kicks and punches connecting. I know there are TKD gyms that do full contact sparring, I also know there are alot that don't.

That's a cop out, how can you practice proper technique with head strike if you don't use them in competition. I thought you might have agreed on this point, I thought TKD tournaments allowed head strike? Or was that just kicks?

Good technique isn't simply a matter of hitting someone with the knuckles, any half decent striker would tell you that. [/quote]

Post that on the general forum and wait for the response. That is just totally wrong. Boxer's punch the bag above the chin because it works the shoulder's more and because not everybody is the same height. Why would you punch several inches lower than your chin if your opponent is taller than you? That statement alone tells me you know little about striking.

Machida drinks his own **** too, doesn't make it right.

Thanks for the concern but it shouldn't be an issue, I train for sports and avoid street fights. In saying that though I think my time would be much better spent practacing hip tosses then punching rocks.

Please explain how hitting a rock is relavant to a fight? Fights are about angles and movement, not staring at you opponent long enough to work up enough chi to hit him.

I only ask because I know alot TKD gyms get accused of being mcdojo's along with karate gyms. A quick look at the No Bull**** forum at Bullshido will back that statement. I know what a mcdojo is and what there practices include (blackbelts promised, yearly contracts, dodgy instructors, lack of sparring etc) and although your gym may not be one, your statements are very mcdojo.

I love the fact you use sarcasm to discredit my friends who I've SEEN fight PROFESSIONALLY and unsanctioned bouts and then go on to state that you know people who can attest to your argument through their stories, but hey they gave you their word.

 

Full contact means hitting without restraint. Yes we do that. Our sparring is also continuous. In a tournament a KO will win you the match. In our school the only type of sparring we do is full contact.

ITF taekwondo (in my opnion the lesser taekwondo) allows punching to the head wearing boxing gloves. Kukki-Taekwondo (world taekwondo, they type which invented shi-hap kyorugi/ olympic sparring) Only allows punching the the body. The body wears a hogu, and the hands and feet are bare (as opposed to ITF wearing large gloves and foot pads). Kukki taekwondo encompases about 90% of taekwondo internationally and is the largest martial art in the world. Except for here in america where things are screwed up beyond belief.

If you want to punch to the head you must wear gloves. If you wear gloves your technique will not stay true. You could have bareknuckle face punching matches, but the damage to the face is not worth the knowledge gained for the vast majority of people. So, we practice barefist punching on bags, bricks, boards, makiwara, and landing on a moving target in sparring.

Yeah, you have to make power while you do so. Hence the breaking, usage in sparring, makiwara, etc... Oh, and wrist alignment.

Perhaps you should go teach JMM how to box.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2t-Xle3dJM[/ame]

This content is protected

And he isn't working the body here either, his body shots are notable lower. Hes even punching below his chin as he is hunched over.

If machida was dominating people with his ****-drinking abilities it would.

I spend time training for sports and I cross train for fights, thats how I like to think about it. In the end extensive sparring in almost any combative martial art will give you a massive edge up on anyone you will run into on the street.

yes, fights are about angle and movement. But that is not all fights are about. Breaking rocks (which is not so much the training, as something people train to do in a competition) is about conditioning your hands for the part which involves punching people in the face.

Yeah, I agree for the most part.

Actually mcdojo term came from the franchise outbreak in the martial arts world. Bob gets $200,000, gives it to ATA (american taekwondo academy). ATA finds him a locaton and opens him up an identical school, they send him of to a two-week training ceminar where he is taught how to keep students happy along with the basic 1-2-3-4 order of their forms and 'streamlined' curriculum, etc... camoflauge belt, pink camoflauge belt, etc.. These classes involve a lot of forms and fun games, kicking paper, etc.. Students almost always drop out after they get blackbelt. There is only controlled sparring.

In Taekwondo we call them mcdojangs (dojang= korean for dojo)

As far as getting blackbelt goes, I think most people I talk to have a very distorted view of what it means, and what is required. The concept that getting your blackbelt takes 5-10 years of consistant training is a bit overkill in my opinion.

It wasnt just their word that convinced me, did you read the post?

 

People like this TKD fighter clown are the reason why nobody takes traditional martial arts seriously and everybody acts surprised when a guy like Machida comes along and kicks ass. TKD and Kyokushin fighters don't punch to the head to begin with, so I really don't understand where he gets this funny idea that they wouldn't be breaking their hands down the line just like everybody else. The MMA gloves protect your hands similar to these gel handwraps (which are ****) - it's better than nothing, tho. This dummy even said it's easier to block shots with MMA gloves...

Punching bricks doesn't equal punching skulls. End thread.