Are Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes the two most technically gifted Heavyweights ever?

Lol. To think how many opponents Louis turned into temporary fuglies after he fought them. For one, Arturo Godoy’s face was somewhat rearranged for the worse.

Ah, so you’ve finally come to join us after watching your Bronco’s big win.

Eels will definitely take it in ‘24. Just make sure you stop the Panthers from getting 3 GF’ wins in a row - that’s one distinction Parra needs to hold on to. Haha.

 

Ha!!!!! We are every chance of beating those rats......of course we have to win a semi first and not pick up any injuries to crucial players. I'm starting to feel something special might be building.....can only hope!

 

Far from it. Ali did all kinds of things "wrong" but made it work. Holmes certainly had great natural technique for jabs and straight rights, but plenty of other things he did were "wrong", however like Ali, he made it work.

An easy pick, whom good quality footage exists of, would be Evander Holyfield. He does everything right, which is probably one of the reasons he had no real weaknesses. For punching technique with good footage, Mike Tyson in his prime -- his hooks and uppercuts are things of beauty. With some big punchers (like Foreman) it's hard to see how they're generating the power they are; with Tyson, just watch how he throws power shots, and it's obvious how he's generating the power.

 

I just want to remind that Usyk exists.

 

Good fundamentals often means lacks elite athleticism.

 

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The short answer is "no". I'd go for Usyk and Holy, personally, with Louis and Tyson also being excellent technicians. Of course, let's not forget that Harold Johnson, Moore and Pastrano fought at HW.

These, and many others, were all more complete technicians than Ali and perhaps also than Holmes. What I can say about Ali is that he had some high end technical stuff that I haven't seen from other HWs. In the early rounds FOTC alone there are moments of absolute technical brilliance of which you rarely, if ever, see from other fighters (Archie Moore doesn't say a fighter "displays tremendous skill" for nothing). Even on a very average night like the one against Bonavena, he could pull out a left hook counter that's on another level in terms of difficulty and execution. In the 15th round of a hard fight, let's not forget.

The double left hook, right cross combo he landed against Williams is certainly one of the best I've seen in HW boxing, as is the double right that ended Folley and the fight ending combo against Foreman (when he was also bruised and tired after eight rounds of hard battle in stifling heat and humidity).

I haven't watched Holmes as thoroughly, but he was also very, very skilled of course, and showed a wider variety of fundamentals.

But if we're talking the complete package in terms of fundamentals, these aren't the two guys I'd go to.

 

He hurt Ellis badly with a similar uppercut while going backwards as well. That one was also very nice.

 

Excellent post. Muhammad's individual genius and improvisation more than compensated for his lack of fundamental technique.

 

Absolutely now that you mention it mate. Will have to recheck that one.

 

I agree with you John.
Now if the conversation was if Ali the most physically gifted
heavyweight in history as far as height,weight, speed, reflexes,
determination , ability to take a clean shot. Yes I agree.
The most technically sound heavyweight in my opinion
was Joe Louis.
Everyone else a distant 2nd.

 

Thanks Flash, good to have a quality poster like yourself agreeing. I think Louis is great technically too. His punching techniques are the finest in history and close study of his defense sees a lot of textbook stuff going on as well.

In recent history i agree with people saying Holyfield was extremely good technically. Unfortunately he often left technique behind and went to war. When he wanted to box properly he was extremely sound.

 

Agreed. Holyfield if he fought up to his technical ability instead of
his ego he'd probably have a few more wins. Maybe 2-1 vs Bowe
as opposed to 1-2....

 

I can't help but agree with you. Passion did get the better of him at times. Interestingly by the time he got to say, Tyson, he had such things well under control or certainly on those two occasions. Mind you with all that resume and experience behind him he should have haha.

 

He probably respected Tyson's power properly.