Are resumes and p4p ranking the same thing? Are both subjective?

Cojimar 1946 · Oct 15, 2024

Glass City Cobra said: ↑

Best way to handle that is to look at whose been rated across multiple sanctioning bodies with favorable rankings. There's also ring magazine to factor in.

Generally speaking, it's impossible for someone to be genuinely world class with world class wins/ranked opponents on their resume yet they themselves aren't ranked. Likewise, it's rare even today for someone to be in the top 10 with zero credible opponents
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Lots of guys score a win and then are allowed to sit in the ratings for years without proving themselves. Ortiz did nothing post Jennings but somehow stayed ranked for 7 years despite no subsequent wins of note.

If we say he was ranked in 2015 it doesn't necessarily follow he was still world class years later when he didn't do anything subsequently

Glass City Cobra · Oct 15, 2024

Greg Price99 said: ↑

I answered your questions very clearly.

I explained to you that my p4p rankings are based on resume, not H2H predicted outcomes of fantasy fights. You seemed to think that I literally meant that resume (i.e. a fighters career) and p4p (i.e. relative to size) are the same thing, which is clearly nonsensical, and so made this poll thread. To be fair to you, you've said in this thread, after I challenged you to quote me as saying such - "if I misunderstood you, that's my bad. I can own that".

Given you've felt the need to post this in response to a poster who I can only describe as the biggest gentleman (figuratively Mike, not literally!) on this forum, instead of responding to my most recent post (where, as stated, I was happy to move to on), and given most posters will not go to the trouble of reading our entire exchange, here's a recap of our exchange over these past few days. If you dispute any of the below points, let me know which & I'll quote the respective posts we made verbatim, with a link to the threads they were made on:

You claimed a credible argument could be made for the resumes of Marciano, Ward, Calzaghe & Ricardo Lopez being deeper than that of Mayweather's.

I gave multiple sources of Mayweather ranking higher than them all in all time p4p lists. In multiple posts, you continued to ask me if p4p & resume are the same thing and also continuously asked whether resumes are subjective or just stats & facts. I kept on replying that my all time p4p rankings are based on resume & that assessing resumes are subjective. So, whilst I didn't directly answer your questions as "yes" or "no", I did answer giving perfectly reasonable answers that clarified my viewpoint in proper context.

I said Lopez having a deeper resume than Mayweather is a new low. You doubled down on the claim. I replied it's the worst take that I've seen on this forum. You then said, after the second & not first, time of being challenged, you were being facetious.

You made this thread with a poll with options that didn't represent anything I said. Despite this, relatively few posters have voted in this thread and in the case of the "resume is just stats" or is "subjective and opinion based", again neither of which represent what I said, the vote is currently relatively evenly split at 5 to 3.

I made a poll asking whether a credible argument could be made for Calzaghe's resume being deeper than Mayweather's, which is exactly what you claimed. The current count is 3 for Yes and 47 for No.

After multiple attempts, I eventually succeeded in having you make the argument you claim could be made for Calzaghe's resume being deeper. That argument has been described in both threads by multiple posters other than myself, as "embarrassing", "laughable" and "definitely on the mount rushmore of bad Mayweather, Calzaghe, takes".

I've been in your thread from the start accounting for my views. Possibly partially on account of that, but probably mostly on account of how flawed your arguments have been, the posts of others, IN YOUR THREAD, have been more in support of my position than yours, with multiple posters quoting they too base their all time P4P rankings on resume and others heavily criticising your position on the depth of Calzaghe and Mayweather's relative resumes.

You've stayed clear of the thread I started, wisely so, because the argument you made has been utterly ridiculed. At the time of typing, the penultimate post on that thread, which was not made by me, reads - "Look at the poll results, this may be the most lopsided poll I've ever seen on here...........................and there's a reason why it's so lopsided".

Whilst I began our exchange firmly but politely, I concede when you doubled down on an absurd position, an absurd position that it was becoming ever clearer to me that even you knew was wrong, just for the sake of being stubborn and (initially) unable to admit you were wrong, I started to come down hard on you. However, I've limited my attacks, pointed as they may have been, to your arguments, which I found to be absurd and have described accordingly. I have been very careful not to attack you personally. Whereas you have resorted to personal insults. Which is ironic when it was you who posted "pressure burst pipes" after I made the Calzaghe/Mayweather thread. I assure you, having experienced your debating "calibre" first hand these last few days, I never have and never will feel any pressure from you. I absolutely will call out absurd arguments you make, whilst defending and accounting for my position. I won't resort to personal insults.

We've been having a debate. My sole point of contention was on your claim about Mayweather's resume depth relative to other unbeaten fighters. Everything else I've responded to has been in explanation to questions you've asked. When you have a debate on a public forum, usually the best you can hope for is that the majority agree with yours, and not with your adversaries, arguments. In this instance, not only has that happened in my favour, possibly to unprecedented levels in a demonstrable and quantifiable poll, but you've actually admitted that the initial and sole claim I've challenged you over, was wrong. It's incredibly rare during a public debate, to not only have virtually unanimous support from others, but to even get your opponent to agree with you & concede they were wrong. That said, whilst you'd have been better served conceding you were wrong earlier, I do give you credit for conceding it eventually. Not everybody would have done that, so fair play to you on that account.

I don't know how old you are, but you obviously know how old I am, as you've posted (near enough) my age recently & commented that I'm more than half a decade older than you. So, whilst I suspect you'll take this as an attempt to undermine you, I can only give you my word that it is well intentioned advice. When you realise you're wrong, own your statement & admit it was wrong it at the earliest available opportunity. The perception others have of you will actually be enhanced accordingly. Don't attempt to deflect &/or change the argument, because eventually you'll come across someone effective & persistent enough, to bait you into showing your hand and you'll come off looking a lot worse because of it.

Now, I've acknowledged that you've been man enough to admit you're wrong and said I'm happy to leave you alone and move on with no hard feelings, sentiments I reiterate now. However, if you're under the misguided notion that continuing to draw attention to our exchange is in your best interests & want to continue it, then fair notice - I will oblige and it will continue to not to go well for you. Think on it.
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I'm not reading all that.

But I'm happy for you.

Or, sorry that happened.

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Are resumes and p4p ranking the same thing? Are both subjective?

What's the verdict?

Resume is pure facts/stats, not anyone's opinion

Resume is subjective and opinion based

Resume and P4P ranking are NOT the same

Resume and P4P ranking IS the same

Cojimar 1946 Boxing Addict Full Member

Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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Are resumes and p4p ranking the same thing? Are both subjective?

What's the verdict?

Resume is pure facts/stats, not anyone's opinion

Resume is subjective and opinion based

Resume and P4P ranking are NOT the same

Resume and P4P ranking IS the same

Cojimar 1946 Boxing Addict Full Member

Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King