Are SHWs a phase?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    SHWs dominate the scene for now but for how long? Will ours be the last HW scene known as the “Land of Giants”?

    It truly began with Lewis to a lesser extent Bowe then the Klits now it is as it is. Will it only be a matter of time before we return to the 6ft2-4s 215-230lbs classic HWs at the top of the food chain?
  2. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Aug 16, 2018
    I'm not so sure we will ever see athletes or people in general get smaller. Just about ever sport is made up of larger athletes. Just look at the NFL or MLB for example. Look how big offensive linemen and Defensive linemen are now. They are bigger, stronger and faster than ever before due to advances in nutrition and working out properly.

    With that said, I think today's heavyweights are bigger and stronger but I would argue that they are NOT more skilled the the guys before. Take a look at the amauter programs that Lewis, Bowe and even the Klitschko's came out of. They all had long amauter careers with tons of coaching. I can only speak for the USA program but I will tell you it is no where near as good as it was even 15 years ago. I think the trend of large heavyweights will continue but I worry about the quality of guys that are coming up due to the amauter programs not being as good. At least in the US, most kids are interested in MMA and not boxing these days and a lot of the great boxing gyms are losing funding in the inner cities. Private MMA guys are all that are left in my town for the most part.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  3. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 15, 2006
    It looks like the giants are here no stay.

    No doubt some 5' 11''- 6' 1'' wrecking machine will emerge eventually, but they will be the exception rather than the norm.
  4. Komaster

    Komaster Just generally giddy Full Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    SHWs are here to stay IMO. And are we talking height or reach as the min factor here? Well presumably the giants have a superior reach and that can only be an advantage if properly harnessed. With height - well the shorter guys are punching upwards, which tends to drain your energy quicker as your hands are raised above your heart for longer periods than the taller guys who are punching downwards. So the absolute specimens with great IQ, gifted speed, who are 6'7+ will probably end up dominating the division. And there's more population than ever so the chances these specimens roam the earth are ever increasing.
    kriszhao, Entaowed and reckless like this.
  5. Finkel

    Finkel Active Member Full Member

    Feb 10, 2020
    It's just the natural progression.
    I am curious how big people can naturally become though
  6. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man Full Member

    Sep 1, 2019
    Here to stay, it won’t ever go back to 6 2”-3” and 220lb on average, it’s been 20 yrs plus now, since Bowe and Lewis, 30 yrs nearly
  7. Limerickbox

    Limerickbox Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 18, 2015
    Why would lighter fighters with lesser reach suddenly start being superior to heavier fighters with longer reach?
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  8. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 13, 2021
    Yeah the 90s were when the Super Heavyweights really started flourishing like Golota and Lewis. But tbh i think Gerry Cooney started the trend because they started appearing more and more after him. You had 6'5, 225lb Tyrell Biggs, 6'4, 225-235 Tucker and more

    I'd consider the likes of Ruddock and Mercer super heavyweights at a point as well as Ruddock came in at a sculped 238 against Mike Tyson in the second fight and Mercer came in at the same weight against Lennox Lewis. Bowe fought and destroyed 6'6, 230lb Roldolfo Marin in the early 90s and buster douglas weighed 230ish and Frank Bruno was 220-250lb during his career. A lot of them were SHWs and you had the tall ones coming really around in the mid-late 90s like Grant, Gonzalez, Klitschko brothers, Akinwande, Mccline, Savarese, etc.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  9. reckless

    reckless Active Member Full Member

    Mar 18, 2018
    Here to stay. A good big one beats a good small one.
    Keleneki and JunlongXiFan like this.
  10. caligula4

    caligula4 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    Echoing others, here to stay. Anomalies and freak talent will happen, but the game has changed for good
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  11. Todd Jones

    Todd Jones New Member Full Member

    Nov 14, 2017
    SHW? Well after this pandemic were sure to see a lot of Butter Beans out there
  12. bandeedo

    bandeedo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    yes and no. shw have always been around, there were just fewer of them. i think with size, there comes a point of diminishing returns, where you start to sacrifice speed and endurance for the sake of bulk. I think about 6'3"-6'4" is the ideal size for fighting under the boxing discipline in the human animals design.
    TheMotorCityCobra likes this.
  13. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 13, 2021
    I've always thought Lennox Lewis was the perfect size for a SHW. 6'5, 245 pounds. Big enough to impose himself on larger opponents and big enough to use his height and reach against short brawlers
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  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

    Dec 16, 2012
    Yes unless they change the rules advantages that favor grabbing/wrestling, the big guys who alreay have an avantage will continue to dominate.
    An there is no reason to believe they will change this, let alone glove size or go back to 15/the championship rounds.

    I do not believe Cooney started the trend. There were always guys around 6 & a 1/2 feet tall, they just reached a certain critical mass, pun intended, in the 1980's.
    Also for his height Cooney did not have the lean muscle mass & weight of a SHW.
    Just like Mercer at 6' 1" was a few inches shorter than what we can rationally define as a SHW-usually at least a True 6' 4".

    Others like Ruddock & Bruno fell a little short, although the latter did fight Tyson at a sculpted 247.

    Guys just reached a certain average size by 40 years ago.

    Even what the OP describes as a "classic" HW was only true for a couple of decades.
    Before the 1960's the average HW & champions certainly were not 6' 2"-6'4" & between 215-230 lbs.
    Certainly not when fit.
    Even say near & in the 1950's, the average HW was at mlst near the bottom of that height range.
    And more or less about 200 lbs.
    Marciano & Charles were on the small side even then-but the average guy was not that much bigger.
    Jersey Joe Walcott for example at 6'0" & in the mid 190's, he did not seem small for his time.
    ShovelHook, sasto and Kamikaze like this.
  15. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 13, 2021
    That depends upon your definition of a SHW. Do you think the bare minimum weight of one is 220lb ? Or over 230 ? Do you think height also defines a SHW ? Because Cooney was 6'5 and weighed 225-230 in his career, he's not exactly a GIANT he'd easily be big enough to compete with modern heavyweights. Dereck Chisora is 6'1 but he usually weights over 240 pounds. Do you consider him a super heavy weight ? Dillian Whyte is 6'4 and 250 pounds but a lot of that weight is fat yet people call him a SHW. Do you count Andy Ruiz as a SHW ? he weighed about 270 pounds when he utterly brutalized Joshua but he's short as hell and he's obese, its not all muscle mass. A lot of Heavyweights today have a lot of fat. Some are fit but some aren't. Do you consider Wilder a SHW ? He's tall as hell but usually weighs around 214lb. Do you consider 6'4 225 Corrie Sanders a SHW ? Because when he murdered Wladimir Klitschko he was actually smaller than Cooney and Sanders wasn't necessarily a fit guy either. Frank Bruno was almost 250 pounds of pure muscle against Oliver Mccall but he was 6'3. Would you consider him a SHW or not ?

    When i mean Cooney started the trend its because after he showed up world class heavyweights saw a immidiate spike in size. Heavyweights the size of Cooney or larger existed before him but they were kind of scarce. And the ones that existed were clumsy.

    Imo SWH is just any weight above 220 pounds. That is it. Whatever height you are. SHW is just a weight class to me like any other weight class in the sense that your weight is what puts you in that class. Heavyweights below a certain height like 5"10 or 5'9 that weigh over 220 would be detrimental in most cases in the boxing ring and isn't healthily natural for their body whether that weight is fat or muscle. So thats why you barely see any 230 pound guys below 6 foot now a days. Oscar Rivas for one weighed at 230 pounds of pure muscle against Whyte and he also floored Whyte. but he was also 6 foot. Pretty short for a heavyweight nowadays
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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