Are SHWs a phase?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

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    Tyson was OK against men around 6'3''

    Even in his prime I dont think he would be any successfull against guys around 6'6''

    Also I dont think Tyson would be as successfull with his style If he was 6'2'' 230 lbs himself. Body mechanics would simply be too slow at that size for a peek a boo style to work.
     
  2. Malph

    Malph Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The best guys SHW guys just have too many advantages.

    What they give up in agility and workrate vs the smaller HWs the make up for in reach and general effectiveness.
     
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  3. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lol over the hill Mike Tyson blasted out Lou Savarese. The same 6'5, 241 pound Savarese that was handling Foreman in the clinches and took his powershots like nothing. You think 1 inch will make a difference ? And keep in mind this wasn't pre prison Tyson this was 2000 Tyson who's skills were greatly diminished and was clearly WELL past his prime. But then again you also think Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua beat prime Lennox Lewis so i dont know why im suprised.
     
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  4. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's natural selection. Ruthless but efficient.
    The SHW is just the modern heavyweights.
     
  5. Finkel

    Finkel Member Full Member

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    Lou Savarese lost that fight and George Foreman was 48 years old

    I think it's fair to say George was at the end of the road in '97
     
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  6. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Old foreman also brutally KOd Moorer and went the distance with Holyfield and had his ass saying Foreman was the hardest puncher he's ever fought and that includes Bowe and Lewis. Besides power is the last thing to go and Foreman even at thing point was still a physically strong man
     
  7. Finkel

    Finkel Member Full Member

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    I would never completely write Tyson off, but I think there are realistic limits of expectation.

    I plotted the relative size of all the top 10 fighters Mike fought. I think Tyson would still be competitive but he wouldn't achieve the same heights in the modern era as he did in the 80s

    Yellow = hypothetical match-up
    Green = win
    Purple = NC
    Red = loss

    Bowe for what it's worth was aware of King not wanting to match Tyson with either him nor Foreman due to the size disadvantage Tyson would have been at.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  8. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    People are larger and large size guys are more encouraged to be in sport. basketball, other sports not only boxing.
    I had compared for example one guy was good basketball player for Olympic team in 60 ies and he was 6 ft 1 in.
    Imagine such short guy in modern NBA or called as tall for national basketball team in any country?
    Guys are larger size than earlier.
    With modern weight classes a lot of early years called as HW boxers guys without dehydration might easily made CW limit.
    Patterson and Marciano definitely just needed to step on weights with 0 water cut and with 0 special nutrition plan.

    Just cos letters HW matters more money at top level, it is not ground not to accept reality: these boxers weight and size and compare this with modern era.

    Looks that Lewis, Vitali, Wlad and A.J had showed us modern more or less optimal size/ weight if with low fat %.
     
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  9. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tyson would have more trouble-on average-against the SHWs.
    But still it would need to have been the very best few in the world to do so, or defeat him.

    Some good or even great basketball players have been around or under 6' tall.
    This is largely true of point guards, who are extremely valuable for controlling the offense & moving the ball.
    Chris Paul is listed at 6'0", could be a little shorter, & looking at advanced stats he is one of the very greatest active players.
     
  10. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

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    Sometime it can work against bigger fighters. David Haye clocked Chisora perfectly. But other than that I had Chisora up. And they are around the same height. Stamina is a huge factor and a smaller fighter gets drained quickly.

    Im totally OK with you picking Lewis I also have him in top 5 all time. I also favor a prime Lewis against Vitali Klitschko Due to jabs and cuts. But in The past fighters like Lewis bullied smaller fighters. Now they have to fight eachother because everybody in The top is bigger nowadays.
     
  11. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But Lewis beat a multitude of other superheavyweights in the 90s. Lewis is easily big enought to impose himself of Fury like he did against Vitali, Grant, Golota, Akinwande, and Biggs. Fury in contrast has shown that smaller heavyweights like 235lb Wallin and 210lb Cunningham can hurt him.

    Fury is skilled for a big guy no doubt but he's beaten Chsiora (who has lost to 8 other people and its about to be 9 against Parker), Wladimir(who is a great win but Wlad himself has been sparked out multiple times beforehand and he was past it) and Overrated 1 trick Pony Wilder(even Ruddock is a lot more skilled). Lewis in all honesty just has the significantly better resume.
     
  12. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We can see that people of all sizes & complexions produce tons of children.
    Height always tends to be favored in males, but there would have to be a powerful selective force permitting the tall (& not just due to better nutrition but genes) to breed much more often, & shorter men to have much fewer kids. This does not exist at all.

    We can also see the huge increase in height for nations that have a better diet. Which-with health care-is the only thing that changed dramatically in the last century. Especially the far east such as South Korea, Iran...And immigrants to the U.S. from nations with mucho poverty tend to tower over their parents.

    This is all nurture/environmental factors.
     
  13. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usually 235 is used as the beginning of SHW.
    But if you accept it at 230-not at all "definite"-then he was barely a SHW for one fight.
    But his bulk was less even then than what is normally a SHW.
     
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  14. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thank you Surrix, but although you quote me, you did not answer: how many of these dudes do you believe are using steroids/HGH or other PEDs?
     
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Height always tends to be favored in males, but there would have to be a powerful selective force permitting the tall (& not just due to better nutrition but genes) to breed much more often, & shorter men to have much fewer kids. This does not exist at all.

    We can also see the huge increase in height for nations that have a better diet. Which-with health care-is the only thing that changed dramatically in the last century. Especially the far east such as South Korea, Iran...And immigrants to the U.S. from nations with mucho poverty tend to tower over their parents.

    Going from a calorie deficit so for health your body takes care of its basic functions AND then has enough calories & macronutrients to reach its potential for height is what has changed.
    It is a direct. ,measureable correlation.

    This is all nurture/environmental factors.