Are these the top 5 fighters since Ray Leonard ?

Point on Lewis/Mayweather: Agreed, fair enough.

I think Mayweather comes across as a titanic arsehole on interviews, but that isn't the basis for my criticisms of him. I think he is a highly skilled fighter, but I do think he has flaws and faults which his zero, his image, and his self-propaganda obscure. He was not impressive in his 3 fights against his 2 best opponents, he has not fought the best fighters available to him in his era, he was not as good a fighter as Roy Jones was, he did lose the first fight with Castillo, and to be honest I don't even like his style anymore. At superfeatherweight he was great to watch and appreciate, but this over-cautious one-punch-at-a-time welterweight version just doesn't float my boat at all. His performances at welterweight haven't been great IMO, I don't think he is a great welter at all. A great welter would have smoked Hatton, Judah and Marquez earlier and more impressively than Mayweather did. JMHO.

 

I can't answer the first question, because when it comes to Floyd I believe we have a different definition of the word 'clearly'. Most people here seem to be highly impressed with the languid performance which led to a close win over a past-prime Oscar, most people on here seem to be highly impressed with a points win over a fat impostor of Marquez who was just begging to be knocked out, and most people on here seem to be highly impressed when Floyd refused to engage JL Castillo in their rematch and stunk the place out on his bike to take a decision.

Floyd jogging round the ring apron flicking out jabs and running the clock down to get a UD against a smaller man with a shorter reach may be an emphatic win to some, but it isn't to me. If Floyd engages Pacquiao, uses all his skills to outbox and punish Pacquiao, and in the later rounds steps forward and tries to assert his superiority beyond all reasonable doubt... well, that would be a different story. But it's not going to happen. Floyd's mentality will not allow it.

What would Mayweather need to do to top Whitaker? Hmmm. Build a time machine, go back to the start of his career, and be a far better boxer than he actually was. Or a real solid gold achievement where he was not odds-on favourite to win, maybe beating Pacquiao then Mosley then a Williams or a Martinez or someone good at 154. He is just too far behind just now to gain parity with one fight.

 

Marry me

 

When I say "smoking" I don't necessarily mean in the Joe Frazier, chew them up and spit them out kind of way, I am well aware that isn't Floyd's style. But there is a difference between a fighter of Floyd's style winning comfortably and winning emphatically. He beat Corrales and Gatti emphatically, put them to the sword. I don't think he did so to either Judah or Marquez, despite winning both fights clearly. You could argue that he did so with Hatton, but considering the frailty Hatton had already exhibited against Collazo at welter, and how terribly easily Pacquiao dispatched him, I think if Floyd was less cautious he could have "Gatti'd" Hatton earlier and with less close rounds.

 

He has always been defensively minded, but as I said, there is a difference between a comfortable win and an emphatic win for a fighter of Floyd's style. When a classy defensive fighter mixes his slick defence with a sporadically aggressive strategy and tries to put his opponent to the sword (a la Whitaker-Haugen, Mayweather-Corrales etc), there are few finer sights in boxing. But Floyd has either been unable or unwilling to do this against his best opponents, either way he doesn't get the credit now that he would be due if he had "Gatti'd" Castillo in the rematch and Oscar in their fight.

There is more chance of Floyd Sr winning Miss Las Vegas than there is of Floyd Jr throwing caution to the wind against a fighter with Pac's power. Brace yourself for the most negative Pretty Boy you have ever seen.

 

Chang

 

Mayweather lost 4 out of the first 5 rounds to Judah, made a mid-fight adjustment to take the fight over, and looked to be on his way to stopping Judah before the chaos broke out. That was one of Floyd's best performances.

How fragile is Berto in your eyes since his performance against Collazo? Hatton was giving Mayweather a fight, it is not as though he could simply choose when he was going to break him. Mayweahther does not hit as hard as Pacquiao.

Mayweahther would be a lot closer to my top 5 if I thought he was good enough to be sandbagging in those fights with Judah or Hatton.

 

I disagree. The manner of victory is always important. Whenever you are deciding on the quality of a win, you always consider both the quality of the losing opponent and the quality of the winning performance. That's why some wins are rated highly when they were achieved against opponents not quite from the top bracket (like Calzaghe-Lacy) because of the quality of performance was so high, and why some wins are not rated particularly highly despite coming against very good fighters (like Hopkins-Winky IMO) because it was an ugly, unimpressive, unconvincing fight where neither man emerged with much credit.

If Floyd fights Pac like he did Castillo in their second fight, and has people booing throughout, and takes a dull UD after running for the duration, he will get nowhere near the same amount of credit as if he emphatically put Pacquiao to the sword, outboxing and punishing him.