Are we witnessing the greatest of all time in any division right now?

Weight classes aren’t even real anymore P4P is out of reach for anyone today.

 

lol, I wish op

 

Plenty are better middleweights.

 

None of them greater than Williams at Middleweight, aside from Hopkins.

 

Head to head, as in the topic of the thread? I'll take Toney, McClellan, Jones, Hopkins and Reggie Johnson.

 

As MWs? Definitely. Moore's greatness would come later, at LHW.

But, yes, Moore has the beat in terms of career greatness.

 

In general.

 

That I agree with. Added that.

 

Johnson but not McCallum?

 

The Body Snatcher was insanely sick. I hate how much the term gets used and abused now, cause it's sorta lost it's meaning. ****ing Whyte got the name, why of all people would he get the name?

 

End thread, really. The best p4p today have at best double digits in terms of wins over ranked opp, while guys like Robinson has close to 50. They just aren't tested like that today. Props to Inoue and Usyk for almost only taking on interesting fights, but they fight too rarely to get anything close to those numbers.

 

Last time I checked, the thread said ''greatest''. Let's check who they beat at the poundage, shall we ?

Roy Jones : Green Hopkins, Jorge Castro and Tate
Julian Jackson : Graham and Tate
Gerald McClellan : Jackson x2 and shell of Mugabi
Reggie Johnson: Collins and Parks
James Toney : McCallum, Johnson and Nunn
Mike McCallum : Kalambay, Watson, Graham, Collins
Sumbu Kalambay: Graham, Barkley, McCallum, Collins, Sims
Bernard Hopkins: Trinidad, Oscar, Joppy, Echols, Holmes, Allen, Johnson, Marcado, Vanderpool, Eastman
Thomas Tate: Only Merqui Sosa
Lamar Parks:...........................

Now let's compare that to the 40's fighters :

Charley Burley: Williams x2 (should be x3), Moore, Chase x3, Lytell, Tiger Wade x3
Holman Williams: Burley x2, Chase x4, Basora x3, Kid Tunero x2, Marshall x2, Booker, Belloise, Cocoa Kid x2,
Jake LaMotta: Older Williams, Cerdan, way lighter Robinson, Lytell, Villemain, Dellicurti x3, Basora x2,
Archie Moore: Richards x2, Hogue, Chase x3
Eddie Booker: Williams, Marshall, Green Moore, Matthews, Hogue x2
Jack Chase: Green Moore, Marshall, Booker, Wade x2, Matthews, Billy Smith
Jose Basora: Green LaMotta, Williams x3 (1 in peak, 2 when old),
Kid Tunero: Charles, Thil, Overlin, Williams x2, Christoforidis x2, Basora
Tony Zale: Hostak x3, Apostoli, Abrams, Graziano x2
Harry Matthews: Al Hostak
Antonio Ferndandez: Jose Basora

By all means, try and tell me how much more accomplished and greater the 90's group is compared to the 40's one.

 

Now do losses.

They met each other much more frequently so there's a statistical inevitability that they will have more wins - and more losses - against each other. Doesn't really say anything but that they faced each other more often.

For that reason it is very hard to compare whole eras to each other in terms of achievement.

What you can say is if fighters will go on to have success in other eras, but even then you can say that Hopkins and Moore would develop further and weren't yet that great and that Jones never really proved himself at MW.

I think it's a hard sell that Jones wasn't great already quality wise at MW, though, and Moore looks more unpolished to me at this time than Hopkins.

 

It says they did more. Guess what happened when Toney and McCallum fought. They went 1-1-1. Should their wins be discredited because such results where inevitable ? Should we just leave them with the rest of their wins and pretend these 2 never fought each other ? That's just being dishonest. If modern fighters don't fight as much as the ones from the past, that's on them. Not the other way around.

Now, if 2 fighters had equally good winning resumes, then the one with the less losses is going to rank higher. If a guy has a slightly worse winning resume but less losses, the same could happen. That's not what is happening here. There's no universe where Jones' MW resume is near as good as Eddie Booker's (I say that as someone who thinks Jones is potentially the H2H GOAT at 160). Moore could have 2 more losses to Burley but his 3 wins over chase will still put him over someone as unnacomplished at the weight as Reggie Johnson. Kalambay, Toney and McCallum have some excellent wins, but Williams literally has the greatest winning resume at the poundage's history, 6 or 7 blemishes in his prime aren't putting them above him.

The 40's fighters are greater at the poundage, there's no going around that.

 

So if they fought each other 10 times, with more wins and losses for both, doe that make their era greater? I don't see how.

Greater in terms of activity, yes, but it does not make them better fighters.