Are you comfortable with Ali beating up smaller, aging men like Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson?

If you watch the Rumble Ali emulated Archie's cross arm defense, not the stationary cross arm defense , but when Archie would slightly out of his cross arm stance move his elbows to deflect blows.

 

There's reason to believe he was robbed against Bonavena in 1968.

Waiting on you to answer who else faced his nr. 2 two months after beating his nr. 1? And gets **** for it.

Show me all the victories for example Berbick, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Tubbs, Smith and Williams had after Tyson beat them? Hell, Cooney was arguably Holmes's best win and he never beat anyone good either before or after. And who did Norton beat after Holmes beat him? So if that is the criteria a whole lotta champions are going to look bad. But you're zeroing in on the one who cleaned out the top 10 of the time he won the title. Look up the yearly for 1963: https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Heavyweight--1960s

Ali beat Folley as pretty much a stay busy fight after eliminating the guys ahead of him, and you make a fuss about this? Your agenda is painfully obvious.

 

Shifting goalposts, point is he beat two past their best fighters (Folley and Williams) and gets credit for it while others get criticized.

 

Sorry couldn't get to you a bit earlier I was just pointing out that using Marciano as an example of a fighter who doesn't get critiqued because of his opponents is misguided. Ali has plenty on his resume to suggest he'd be willing to fight anyone he's my no.2 heavyweight behind Joe Louis.

 

For the third time, who gets criticised for facing his nr. 2 two months after beating his nr. 1? Answer or have the dignity to shut up.

And do you think Williams even makes top 20 among Ali's wins on people's lists? Everyone knows what state he was in. Show me a thread were the Williams and Folley wins are held up as testimonies to Ali's greatness.

 

Ali fought all his contemporaries the fans wanted to see him in the ring with. Who did he duck?

 

Thyrolar had a diuretic effect according to Pacheco. Don't know if that's what you refer to.

It was prescribed by his (quack) doctor for condition the doctor thought he had (but was wrong about). I haven't heard anywhere that it was illegal. Probably too random to be that. Ali took more than prescribed, though. In the end it messed him up.

 

Marciano gets criticised for not having that good an opp, yes, because they were old.

But this thread isn't about that, it's about the morality of facing fighters past their prime. The claim is that Ali get a pass for this in Moore and Patterson while others don't, and this isn't true. No one holds Marciano morally accountable for facing opponents at the end of their career, nor should they. They were what was available.

 

In the top ten Ali wins thread both were mentioned Folley 5 times Williams once not to mention the Patterson fight 8 times

 

Link to this thread, so I can see.

You mean the second Patterson fight? And you mean wins, not performances? Because plenty think Ali was around his best for Williams, Folley and Patterson 1 (I do) but they don't have them as great wins.

Patterson 2 I can't imagine being seen as either a great win or performance.

But if the question is when Ali was at his best, Patterson 1, Williams and Folley are sure to come high.

But that doesn't mean that Williams and Folley are seen as very good opponents.

A better way of phrasing it, would perhaps be that Williams isn't seen as one of Ali's 20 best opponents. Because many see it as one of Ali's best performances and might define that as win, which for me would be just performance.

But that version of Williams shouldn't make top 20 among Ali's opponents and Folley shouldn't make 10.

 

You bet, man. PFB all the way for me! The whole day I've been here I've done precious little except extoll his virtues.

 

Folley was no 2 ,should Ali have bypassed him?

 

At this point @Bokaj I'd probably just say to ignore the *******. He's gonna make you run around in circles to get nowhere, and inflate this thread just as he's done to many others.